CV Skill Gap as Big as Ever

[clammboy]

54 minutes ago, WaveRider said:

but again if I play risky (or stupidly) - why should one ship allow you to get away with it more than another? (especially when the mechanics are so influential).

So you want all ships to be equal for skills sake . That would get boring really fast no?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

17 minutes ago, WaveRider said:

Definitely signing off now and genuinely wishing you well sir <O

Have a good night!

[WES_HoundDog]

6 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Let's pit you against one other player in a 1v1. You're in a Yamato. Your opponent is in a Shimakaze. They can be 6km away from you and never be seen, and next thing you know you're facing a 15-torpedo spread. And if you're not devstruck at once, you face another a couple of minutes later. And so on until you're dead. Yet you never see him because he never fires his guns, so you can't shoot at him. Or maybe it's not a 1v1 and he's spotting for the Vermont behind a landmass who then devstrikes you with a gun broadside.

How is this any different from being attacked by a carrier? 

Funny you brought this up.

I just so happened to have a shimmy hunting me in a BB, think it was republic.   No one around me, no way of spotting no way to know where he was.   3 full torp salvos later he finally hits me with one torpedo. However, great dodging aside, without CV's, or maybe because of CV's,  DD's have become overly powerful.   This is why i'm rethinking the idea of minimap spotting.   It just doesn't provide a strong enough counter to todays 20 torps with reload booster, more dpm than cruiser crap WG has thrown in the game.    I'm thinking maybe a delayed visual to ships similar to how radar works.  And/or add in a radio jamming consumable to dd's to hinder plane spotting.

 

As for your other point on how this is different from being attacked by a carrier?    If your broadside to a vermont and remain broadside long enough for him to fire and his parachuting shells to hit you in bad spots lot-o-times, you screwed up heinously or your just a bad player.     CV's don't give a crap about your awareness or angle.  Commonly cause that Vermont to have a great shot because, torps don't overpen or shatter or bounce or have wonky dispersion and flat out miss.   

 I mean i know people have told you this at least a dozen times over the years on the forums to this same question you repeat over and over so i don't know why you keep thinking if i find someone that won't respond that means i'm right.  Your not.

Edited December 21, 2023 by WES_HoundDog

[3LUE]

13 hours ago, SeaQuest said:

WG does not care about how bad players play or they would not have been giving out a tier 8 Bismarck to a new player who has only played one game. 

Bingo!!!!!!!

[Guest]

11 hours ago, torino2dc said:

Whenever I see complaints like these, I swap the classes and imagine what people would say.

"Our team..New Mexico 148 games played, 30k avg damage in BB. Red team Warspite BB Main 4500 games played 76k avg damage in BB.  Ours ends up with no kills and #8 in the lineup. Theirs 3 kills and #1."

I doubt it would provoke such a negative reaction. Certainly not enough to merit a forum post. But why? Functionally speaking, both instances saw a veteran player exploit the fact that their opposite number was weak (and their own ship was strong) to hard carry their team. 

Is it somehow 'more honest' when a BB does it? Or is it because CVs are just more un-fun to play against? 

There are usually several BBs so it somewhat balances out. CVs are usually a high impact 1 ship per game annoyance. A good one wins the game vs a bad one 90% of the time.

[WaveRider]

11 hours ago, clammboy said:

So you want all ships to be equal for skills sake . That would get boring really fast no?

Incorrect as indicated in previous posts:

Incorrect, if I am correct in thinking you are indicating all ships being essentially the same. Indeed you can ensure different ship types get different rewards for the things their ships are stronger in - you could even give them more rewards for pulling off something their ship is less capable of doing. But to do those things they do usually have to be around long enough to have a chance of accomplishing those things.

As I have only stated I want a comparable reward/contribution/enjoyment from the game, no matter the ship type, as long as I play equally skilfully with each type - that does not need any type of stats needing to be uniform.

That has to do with the equal opportunity of working hard and getting the same results for doing so.

 

TLDR: It is quite simple really, the ships do not have to be anything alike, but if a person plays different ships, with the same amount of skill, then why shouldn't they have equal chance of reward, survival, contribution to the team and enjoyment?

[coolrunings_99]

3 hours ago, WaveRider said:

Incorrect as indicated in previous posts:

Incorrect, if I am correct in thinking you are indicating all ships being essentially the same. Indeed you can ensure different ship types get different rewards for the things their ships are stronger in - you could even give them more rewards for pulling off something their ship is less capable of doing. But to do those things they do usually have to be around long enough to have a chance of accomplishing those things.

As I have only stated I want a comparable reward/contribution/enjoyment from the game, no matter the ship type, as long as I play equally skilfully with each type - that does not need any type of stats needing to be uniform.

That has to do with the equal opportunity of working hard and getting the same results for doing so.

 

TLDR: It is quite simple really, the ships do not have to be anything alike, but if a person plays different ships, with the same amount of skill, then why shouldn't they have equal chance of reward, survival, contribution to the team and enjoyment?

But imho, weegee already did that base xp enhancement thing for dildos. Of course in a manner that only weegee thinks to be eeeh..prudent?😁

Play with a dildo and get more base xp for doing less than in any other ship class.

That is wrong on so many levels, especially with baked in griefing potential of well played dildos.

It is true that if you play against any ship played better than your own, that alone can and will get You in trouble faster than out of it😉.

The stomp levels are just a consequence of ‘balans by sell by date’ and thats developers choice, with maybe more consequences than they hoped for. Now they ll tweak this and that, spotting, dildos this and that properties, but never ever core issues, cause its sell by date is still umm..on😁🤟.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

17 minutes ago, coolrunings_99 said:

But imho, weegee already did that base xp enhancement thing for dildos. Of course in a manner that only weegee thinks to be eeeh..prudent?😁

Play with a dildo and get more base xp for doing less than in any other ship class.

That is wrong on so many levels, especially with baked in griefing potential of well played dildos.

It is true that if you play against any ship played better than your own, that alone can and will get You in trouble faster than out of it😉.

The stomp levels are just a consequence of ‘balans by sell by date’ and thats developers choice, with maybe more consequences than they hoped for. Now they ll tweak this and that, spotting, dildos this and that properties, but never ever core issues, cause its sell by date is still umm..on😁🤟.

FYI,

Subs have the best current rewards return on game results...with CVs having the worse return of all classes.

[coolrunings_99]

Yeah I know, and think its very shabby - putting it mildly.

CV sell by date might have passed, dildos, not yet😁🤟

[Wolfswetpaws]

Everyone wants the same thing, which is "their own way".
 

[Justin_Simpleton]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Everyone wants the same thing, which is "their own way".

True, but is that really too much to ask for?

[Sambo_Cigars]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:02 PM, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Let's pit you against one other player in a 1v1. You're in a Yamato. Your opponent is in a Shimakaze. They can be 6km away from you and never be seen, and next thing you know you're facing a 15-torpedo spread. And if you're not devstruck at once, you face another a couple of minutes later. And so on until you're dead. Yet you never see him because he never fires his guns, so you can't shoot at him. Or maybe it's not a 1v1 and he's spotting for the Vermont behind a landmass who then devstrikes you with a gun broadside.

How is this any different from being attacked by a carrier? 

The difference is obvious: The Yamato vs Shimakaze is a *freak occurrence*, it can only happen if a lot of other things have gone wrong previously. A destroyer, cruiser or battleship being savaged by a CV is not a freak occurrence at all, in fact it was the norm in many tier 8 and tier 10 ranked battles.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Sambo_Cigars

[Sambo_Cigars]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:13 PM, WES_HoundDog said:

Funny you brought this up.

I just so happened to have a shimmy hunting me in a BB, think it was republic.   No one around me, no way of spotting no way to know where he was.   3 full torp salvos later he finally hits me with one torpedo.

This☝️. My more experienced BB players can tell when the next torpedo salvo is on its way and know how to evade most, if not all, of the torpedoes. It's not like a battleship is a sitting duck in a one-on-one against a destroyer but the same battleship player is very much a sitting duck against a CV.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Sambo_Cigars

[Snargfargle]

1 minute ago, Sambo_Cigars said:

This☝️. My more experienced BB players can tell when the next torpedo salvo is on its way and know how to evade most, if not all, of the torpedoes.

I have taken two torpedo acquisition spec's and the fast rudder shift spec for my Massachusetts. If I start turning into the planes as I see them drop, I can usually avoid the torpedoes. I will tank air-dropped torps though if by turning it would place me in the path of surface ship's torps or broadside to a BB that would do a lot more damage. I'm not sure why CVs like to target one of the better AA BBs in the game, even when not spec'd for AA, but I've been getting a lot of AA Defense Expert Awards lately. I don't mind so much being targeted by a CV as it takes pressure off of the rest of my team.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, Sambo_Cigars said:

The difference is obvious: The Yamato vs Shimakaze is a *freak occurrence*, it can only happen if a lot of other things have gone wrong previously. A destroyer, cruiser or battleship being savaged by a CV is not a freak occurrence at all, in fact it was the norm in many tier 8 and tier 10 ranked battles.

Welcome to naval combat in the world war 2 era.

WG is clearly trying to enact a vision for the game that includes planes.

Now, is that actually wise? Many would say it is not.

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

11 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Everyone wants the same thing, which is "their own way".

True, but is that really too much to ask for?

People are diverse, and what one wants may not be what another wants, and etc. & etc.

[Verytis]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:37 AM, Kalishnikat said:

There are usually several BBs so it somewhat balances out. CVs are usually a high impact 1 ship per game annoyance. A good one wins the game vs a bad one 90% of the time.

Another major exaggeration on a CV's capabilities.

This might have been possible during RTS, but reworked CVs depend substantially on its team in order to perform.

• Without focus firing with teammates, you struggle to create crossfire situations except sluggish BBs who depend on pure tanking rather than evasion.
• AA CLs can eat significant portions of your hanger while evading most strikes.
• Some CVs lack any practical method of hitting DDs and depend on teammates to shoot them while you spot. Without a team, you're mostly wasting time.
• If the enemy groups up for AA, it falls onto your team to exert better map control, crossfire and/or prioritising AA ships, while you slowly chip at the AA blob or focus elsewhere.
• Spotting, the favorite scapegoat, is also worthless without teammates using it.

But really BBs should learn to appreciate their cruiser friends.

[GandalfTehGray]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:15 AM, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

It is illogical to hate CV players...they did not design the game and have no influence on how the game is run and balanced.

If you are hating CV players, then the toxicity problem is YOU.

No but there are currently 3 other modes (coop, operations, and Asymmetric) that you can play the fun police in and not grief the player base. 

Although I did have someone question why I brought one to Asymmetric the other day which made me laugh as they apparently thought it wasn't good for the mode. Still finished 2nd with an Implacable of all things.