torino2dc Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Not to rain on OP's parade, but T7 has some issues. - BBs either have no armor (26mm which gets overmatched by 380mm AP) or all the armor (Heinrich, Scharn, Gneisenau, Sinop). If you want to play one of the former, enjoy the fact that a complete beginner in a nose-in Sinop will butter your armor and take forever to bring down at range. - Most T7 Cruisers can't deal with high armor targets, have middling speed/stealth, bad armor, and no survivability tools. A complete beginner in a Heinrich can just press W at you -- forcing you to choose between running for Narnia or getting chewed up by primaries/secondaries. - There are only 3 radars at T7 (Belfast, Atlanta/B, Indianapolis). All rare or semi-rare premiums. Most newish DD players won't know those are radars, because the likelihood that they've run into one of them in a random battle + been radared + learned which ship to watch out for, is ... questionable. In practice, they skew battles far more than radars do in higher tiers because of their relative rarity. - The T7 premium DDs are bonkers. Let's see: best stealth capper (Haida), best all-purpose DDs (stealthy: Z-39, speedy: Leningrad), best torp spammer (Tashkent '39), and best gunbotes (Huron, Blyska, FR25). Shiratsuyu, Gadjah, Jervis, Mahan, Maass -- all fine but none of them are standouts in ranked. ______ In a 12v12 randoms context vs. T5-T9, the issues outlined above tend to wash out. But in 7v7 at Tier 7, the flaws in the overall metagame become apparent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo_Apollo11 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Hi all, I found my new love for Ranked and Brawl... 😀 Leo "Apollo11" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Ruka Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Leo_Apollo11 said: Hi all, I found my new love for Ranked and Brawl... 😀 Leo "Apollo11" Yeah I see a loooot of them ... they can be good if played correctly ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Ruka Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 On 12/28/2023 at 11:15 PM, torino2dc said: Not to rain on OP's parade, but T7 has some issues. - BBs either have no armor (26mm which gets overmatched by 380mm AP) or all the armor (Heinrich, Scharn, Gneisenau, Sinop). If you want to play one of the former, enjoy the fact that a complete beginner in a nose-in Sinop will butter your armor and take forever to bring down at range. - Most T7 Cruisers can't deal with high armor targets, have middling speed/stealth, bad armor, and no survivability tools. A complete beginner in a Heinrich can just press W at you -- forcing you to choose between running for Narnia or getting chewed up by primaries/secondaries. - There are only 3 radars at T7 (Belfast, Atlanta/B, Indianapolis). All rare or semi-rare premiums. Most newish DD players won't know those are radars, because the likelihood that they've run into one of them in a random battle + been radared + learned which ship to watch out for, is ... questionable. In practice, they skew battles far more than radars do in higher tiers because of their relative rarity. - The T7 premium DDs are bonkers. Let's see: best stealth capper (Haida), best all-purpose DDs (stealthy: Z-39, speedy: Leningrad), best torp spammer (Tashkent '39), and best gunbotes (Huron, Blyska, FR25). Shiratsuyu, Gadjah, Jervis, Mahan, Maass -- all fine but none of them are standouts in ranked. ______ In a 12v12 randoms context vs. T5-T9, the issues outlined above tend to wash out. But in 7v7 at Tier 7, the flaws in the overall metagame become apparent. Interesting observation, Huron is a PoS ... basically all the tech tree DDs have a detection advantage and when played right can make the premiums useless. Mahan is a tier of it's own. Amazing DPM, a LOT of torpedoes, HP, long lasting smokes ... and about on par with the premiums in detection ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouSatInGum Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Hugh_Ruka said: Interesting observation, Huron is a PoS ... basically all the tech tree DDs have a detection advantage and when played right can make the premiums useless. Mahan is a tier of it's own. Amazing DPM, a LOT of torpedoes, HP, long lasting smokes ... and about on par with the premiums in detection ... I disagree. While Huron is not OP like it's Haida cousin, it's still a solid DD. 6.2 detect is actually average or slightly below average for the tier and compared to the other 4km hydro DD, Mass, it's far superior, or at least when it come to cap control and knife fights. I'll remind you that Mass has 6.8 detect which is about as bad as Mahan, and Huron has much better DPM. The single rack torps in a drag, but in ranked where you are trying to get a quick DD kill to get the game going your way early, then Huron is quite good. It does require some aggressive plays at times to use it's hydro offensively, but it does have a heal to help with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torino2dc Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Hugh_Ruka said: Huron is a PoS ... basically all the tech tree DDs have a detection advantage and when played right can make the premiums useless. I honestly don't understand what this is trying to say. 6.2km is better concealment than all T7 tech tree DDs except Shira, Gadjah, and Skåne. In addition to being able to outspot most of them, the Huron has the 2nd highest HE DPM out of all T7 DDs behind only Mahan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snargfargle Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 My free Sharnhorst '43 is doing well in tier VII Ranked. I spec'd it out for long-range secondaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDG44_Vet Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Snargfargle said: My free Sharnhorst '43 is doing well in tier VII Ranked. I spec'd it out for long-range secondaries. Hi @Snargfargle, would you mind sharing your build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snargfargle Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, DDG44_Vet said: Hi @Snargfargle, would you mind sharing your build? Right now I only have an eleven-point Commander but the main skills I have regarding secondaries are the Equipment modification for long-range secondaries combined with the Commander skill for the same. This extends secondaries to 9.5 km. I took concealment and enhanced fire chance too. When I get more Commander points I'll probably add Adrenaline Rush then I'll have to see what else I want. I usually take manual secondary control on my secondary-spec'd BBs but with this one I might go with something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDG44_Vet Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, Snargfargle said: Right now I only have an eleven-point Commander but the main skills I have regarding secondaries are the Equipment modification for long-range secondaries combined with the Commander skill for the same. This extends secondaries to 9.5 km. I took concealment and enhanced fire chance too. When I get more Commander points I'll probably add Adrenaline Rush then I'll have to see what else I want. I usually take manual secondary control on my secondary-spec'd BBs but with this one I might go with something else. Thank you🫡 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouSatInGum Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 On 12/28/2023 at 4:15 PM, torino2dc said: Not to rain on OP's parade, but T7 has some issues. - BBs either have no armor (26mm which gets overmatched by 380mm AP) or all the armor (Heinrich, Scharn, Gneisenau, Sinop). If you want to play one of the former, enjoy the fact that a complete beginner in a nose-in Sinop will butter your armor and take forever to bring down at range. - Most T7 Cruisers can't deal with high armor targets, have middling speed/stealth, bad armor, and no survivability tools. A complete beginner in a Heinrich can just press W at you -- forcing you to choose between running for Narnia or getting chewed up by primaries/secondaries. - There are only 3 radars at T7 (Belfast, Atlanta/B, Indianapolis). All rare or semi-rare premiums. Most newish DD players won't know those are radars, because the likelihood that they've run into one of them in a random battle + been radared + learned which ship to watch out for, is ... questionable. In practice, they skew battles far more than radars do in higher tiers because of their relative rarity. - The T7 premium DDs are bonkers. Let's see: best stealth capper (Haida), best all-purpose DDs (stealthy: Z-39, speedy: Leningrad), best torp spammer (Tashkent '39), and best gunbotes (Huron, Blyska, FR25). Shiratsuyu, Gadjah, Jervis, Mahan, Maass -- all fine but none of them are standouts in ranked. ______ In a 12v12 randoms context vs. T5-T9, the issues outlined above tend to wash out. But in 7v7 at Tier 7, the flaws in the overall metagame become apparent. I guess nothing is perfect, but after letting one of my alts graduate to silver a few days ago....lemme tell that I was having a ton more fun at T7. I get what you're coming from on the disparity of balance between prem and tree at T7, but T8 also has it's standouts and the situation of cruisers vs. BB's at T8 gets worse in many cases as the BB's get faster and more accurate....and the more survivable cruisers at T8, like Atago have to give up an awful lot of DPM to get it. On the DD front if you aren't playing Akizuki or Cossack then you are handicapping yourself....and then you have naughty BB list of Lenin/Massa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Ruka Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 13 hours ago, torino2dc said: I honestly don't understand what this is trying to say. 6.2km is better concealment than all T7 tech tree DDs except Shira, Gadjah, and Skåne. In addition to being able to outspot most of them, the Huron has the 2nd highest HE DPM out of all T7 DDs behind only Mahan. no smoke. in Ranked you'll be shot by everything once spotted. you cannot bail while the other DD can either outspot you or can smoke up when needed ... I tried the Huron in a few games ... did not get more than 15k damage before I was below usable HP and was not able to spot for my team or engage enemy DDs ... that was all the initial detection, the other DD either outspoted me or smoked up while I was shot at ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torino2dc Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 On 12/31/2023 at 1:26 PM, Hugh_Ruka said: no smoke. Smoke on DDs in ranked generally has three main uses. 1) Covering friendly cruisers so that they can support from closer to the cap. 2) Allowing the DD to farm damage asymmetrically. 3) A crutch for when the DD takes an engagement it can't win. Number three is entirely within the player's control. Before opening up on an opposing DD, Huron must be able to verify that the other guy doesn't have friends with which to create a vision asymmetry. Number two can be occasionally inconvenient when there aren't islands nearby for cover and the Huron must secure a kill shooting from open water. That said she is a small ship to hit at 12km and has an engine boost to help dodge. Number one would be her greatest disadvantage if team play were more of a factor in Bronze ranked. If you could reliably count on the cruisers being able properly utilize smoke it would be an unfortunate shortcoming, but as it stands it is just a mild inconvenience. On 12/31/2023 at 1:26 PM, Hugh_Ruka said: in Ranked you'll be shot by everything once spotted. you cannot bail while the other DD can either outspot you or can smoke up when needed As said earlier she outspots most DDs at her tier. If properly positioned within a cap (tail-in or near cover) you can force the opposite number to turn away without firing a shot. On 12/31/2023 at 1:26 PM, Hugh_Ruka said: I tried the Huron in a few games ... did not get more than 15k damage before I was below usable HP and was not able to spot for my team or engage enemy DDs ... that was all the initial detection, the other DD either outspoted me or smoked up while I was shot at ... What it sounds like is that we weren't judicious enough about whether to take firefights. Against a DD with smoke Huron has to be certain there aren't any other enemy ships within spotting, otherwise she will allow for an easy asymmetry. That said, once we get past the first engagement without losing much HP, the options start to open up. Huron has the speed, conceal, hydro, and DPM to allow for a variety tactical possibilities in the mid- and end-game. The match is 20 minutes long -- just because the first engagement doesn't bear immediate fruit doesn't mean that the ship is bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Took Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Im finding the Reknown 44 to be alot of fun at tier 7 ranked,, played aggresively.. i dont know what all the hub-bub is about the scharnhorsts,, they have pellet guns for main cannons... Leningrad is a nice back up boat as well. I also discovered that if you dont plan to rank 1 silver,, the amount of steel and dubs you get for rank 1 bronze is the same as dubbing out in silver week after week..so really theyre no point going to silver unless you plan to get down to rank 1... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Ruka Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 16 hours ago, torino2dc said: What it sounds like is that we weren't judicious enough about whether to take firefights. Against a DD with smoke Huron has to be certain there aren't any other enemy ships within spotting, otherwise she will allow for an easy asymmetry. That said, once we get past the first engagement without losing much HP, the options start to open up. Huron has the speed, conceal, hydro, and DPM to allow for a variety tactical possibilities in the mid- and end-game. The match is 20 minutes long -- just because the first engagement doesn't bear immediate fruit doesn't mean that the ship is bad. sorry what ? I can get 3-4 kill 80k+ games in a Gadjah easily in the same situations ... I even managed to make the Luca Tarigo work much better than Huron for me ... hell even with the Grom I managed a 60% WR ... Huron ? just frustration ... I could not properly support my fellow DDs, I was unable to stop enemy pushes (no torpedo power), I had a very hard time zoning out enemy DDs ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouSatInGum Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 1/1/2024 at 8:56 AM, torino2dc said: Smoke on DDs in ranked generally has three main uses. 1) Covering friendly cruisers so that they can support from closer to the cap. 2) Allowing the DD to farm damage asymmetrically. 3) A crutch for when the DD takes an engagement it can't win. Number three is entirely within the player's control. Before opening up on an opposing DD, Huron must be able to verify that the other guy doesn't have friends with which to create a vision asymmetry. Number two can be occasionally inconvenient when there aren't islands nearby for cover and the Huron must secure a kill shooting from open water. That said she is a small ship to hit at 12km and has an engine boost to help dodge. Number one would be her greatest disadvantage if team play were more of a factor in Bronze ranked. If you could reliably count on the cruisers being able properly utilize smoke it would be an unfortunate shortcoming, but as it stands it is just a mild inconvenience. As said earlier she outspots most DDs at her tier. If properly positioned within a cap (tail-in or near cover) you can force the opposite number to turn away without firing a shot. What it sounds like is that we weren't judicious enough about whether to take firefights. Against a DD with smoke Huron has to be certain there aren't any other enemy ships within spotting, otherwise she will allow for an easy asymmetry. That said, once we get past the first engagement without losing much HP, the options start to open up. Huron has the speed, conceal, hydro, and DPM to allow for a variety tactical possibilities in the mid- and end-game. The match is 20 minutes long -- just because the first engagement doesn't bear immediate fruit doesn't mean that the ship is bad. Spot on assessment. That said.... when I'm in Atlanta and there's a cooperative Sims or Mahan on the team.... it's like a 80+% win rate for me. At least half the time a red DD dies in the opening engagement... at worst we get the cap for little cost. The only mitigating factor is if there is a competent radar cruiser on other team. Once Atlanta has smoke, it's even more OP than Belfast since it can stack damage nearly twice as fast on BBs. But like you say....as a DD.... you can't count on competent cruiser players to take advantage of smoke.... ....but if you can division then it's a bigger drawback. For instance a V2 / Ragnar or Gdansk is a nasty division. BTW - I sure which you could elect not to rank out..... I won't throw games to stay in .... and no more resets for this season .... so 😢 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OT2_2 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 "Ferruccio" is my new favorite for Ranked. A very powerful, agile cruiser with a deadly combination of strong guns, torpedoes and smoke. Ranked bronze is sometimes a real nightmare. Two steps ahead and three steps back ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I'm enjoying grinding Caracciolo in bronze...either I win or save my star. Being not bottom tier with a modicum of experience really makes it enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OT2_2 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) Good game in Italian DD FR 25, which is in general massively underrated IMHO. Very fast, strong artillery, decent concealment for being TVII and usable torpedoes. BTW, I got reported twice in this Ranked Battle ... Edited January 5 by OT2_2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo_Apollo11 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Hi all, Got to Gold in last Ranked Sprint... I really really like thsi ship (IMHO one of teh fines WG added in past monts and months)! 🙂 Leo "Apollo11" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ole_seabee Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I just got the Scharnhorst 43, Im a dd main and rarely play bbs. I would like to give it a try in ranked. Could someone help me with skill set up? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo_Apollo11 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Hi all, 29 minutes ago, ole_seabee said: I just got the Scharnhorst 43, Im a dd main and rarely play bbs. I would like to give it a try in ranked. Could someone help me with skill set up? Thanks I run it as Secondary enabled ship! Here is nice build: from: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XfsIIbyORQAxgOE-ao_nVSP8_fpa1igg0t48pXZFIu0 Leo "Apollo11" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ole_seabee Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Thank you so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo_Apollo11 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Hi all, 19 minutes ago, ole_seabee said: Thank you so much. No problem at all! 🙂 Leo "Apollo11" P.S. I use Lutjens and I have different skill in 1st row (just my personal preference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore135 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, ole_seabee said: I just got the Scharnhorst 43, Im a dd main and rarely play bbs. I would like to give it a try in ranked. Could someone help me with skill set up? Thanks A secondary build might be more optimal in Ranked, but this is my Randoms build for Scharnhorst (the OG), Gneisenau, and Tirpitz. It should work for Scharnhorst’43 as well. The boosted Vigilance skill is nice since you don’t have hydro, and PM helps ensure your highly vulnerable torpedoes tubes don’t get knocked out at the worse possible moment. Edited January 9 by Nevermore135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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