Forum Moderation

[SureBridge]

Hello Folks

As recently noted on another thread, this is not the WG forums. Because this is completely volunteer run (and led) we have a bit more flexibility in how we run things. The current guidelines can be found here:

https://www.devstrike.net/guidelines/

It basically boils down to "please be nice to one another"

Things that we are NOT going to back down on are ad-hominum attacks, naming and shaming and the like because this goes downhill fast and makes forums toxic. 

Planning on link-spamming? that's going to get your account nuked.

But there are other things that we should discuss.

Should swearing be banned? or should we assume that folks are grown-ups, and the occasional use of a generally Freaking inappropriate word in a post to add emphasis is deliberate and appropriate? If it isn't then the current (internal) suggestion is to auto-replace with "fiddlesticks".

There are a number of folks that I have interacted with on the "old" forums. Here are the things that I am currently planning to recommend in terms of moderator actions - please let us know if these are good, and if there are other things you would also like to see.

• I would send a reply to anyone who sent a report that I processed, to let them know that we had received a report, that someone was acting on it, and what action was taken. For a number of these it was "no action" and I would explain why the post was within the rules. 
• When anyone was sent a warning, they would get a PM copying the warning (sometimes the "warning" would get lost in the system). letting them know WHY the post in question was a problem, and letting them know what the consequence was (in many cases "just a warning, please don't do this again")
• For some folks, we would have a discussion to articulate exactly where the line was ("you can talk about how it's annoying as heck when you get constant messages for your DD to take a cap and are then unsupported, but you CAN'T say "AdmiralBigBanannas tod me three times to take the cap, and "support this target" and then hid behind a rock")

We all have bad days. As a moderator, it's my job to try and make sure that this is somewhere that you can "agreeably disagree". You can get in an argument at the pub, but if the fists start flying then you are done for the night. If it's a good pub, you'll be back later, and probably continue to have (heated) discussions - but you know that it isn't the sort of place where you ever need to dodge flying furniture. I've gotten to know a lot of folks who regularly post, and while some of them have some "rough edges" they are really good at this game we like to play, and have good points to make. 

So let's see if we can have a civil discussion around how you want the bartender to run the joint 😀

[Took]

this all sounds good to me...   cant you just have swear words auto filtered to stars or something.?  Also thank you for changing the font color on the thingy at the top....

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Edited August 22, 2023 by Took

[Verblonde]

From my perspective, that all sounds eminently sensible.

 

10 minutes ago, SureBridge said:

Should swearing be banned?

Despite having written essays in my English tutoring courses explaining why students should be taught to swear (it all boils down to everyone does it, and you don't fully understand a language if you don't understand at least some of the swearing, and other colloquialisms), I tend to think yes, or at least auto-corrected to something else.

A few reasons: this is pretty standard practice, so shouldn't shock anyone; different swears have different levels of seriousness, depending on age/nation etc. of reader, so it'll be easier for mods just to ban the lot; finally it's fun trying to think of alternative ways to say the same thing whilst giving your vocab/wit a minor work-out.

 

15 minutes ago, SureBridge said:

the current (internal) suggestion is to auto-replace with "fiddlesticks".

Oh, please do this - it'd be glorious!

[SureBridge]

28 minutes ago, Took said:

this all sounds good to me...   cant you just have swear words auto filtered to stars or something.?  Also thank you for changing the font color on the thingy at the top....

That would be @I_cant_Swim_ - he's been flat out for most of a month getting this up and running.

[Slimeball91]

While I have no problems with profanity in general, it probably isn't a good idea for forums.  The issue is where should the line be drawn?  The occasional bad word isn't really a problem; someone that swears every other word will be offensive to many people.  Also, what if in the future you want to try to attract adverting. It's probably best to auto filter out profanity.  

38 minutes ago, SureBridge said:

the current (internal) suggestion is to auto-replace with "fiddlesticks".

While fiddlesticks is cutesy/fun, sometimes it will mess up the intention/meaning the poster was trying to get across.  If the word is just blocked out more people will know what was meant to be said.  If custom code isn't too much effort, blocking all but the first letter of banned words might be a good compromise.   

[Admiral_Karasu]

15 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

While I have no problems with profanity in general, it probably isn't a good idea for forums.  The issue is where should the line be drawn?  The occasional bad word isn't really a problem; someone that swears every other word will be offensive to many people.  Also, what if in the future you want to try to attract adverting. It's probably best to auto filter out profanity.  

While fiddlesticks is cutesy/fun, sometimes it will mess up the intention/meaning the poster was trying to get across.  If the word is just blocked out more people will know what was meant to be said.  If custom code isn't too much effort, blocking all but the first letter of banned words might be a good compromise.   

What is considered profanity? The F-word probably, but what about the substitute expressions? And what about swear words that do not fall within the sexual category, but which traditionally were considered very much taboo expressions because they were related to religion, I think, mostly.

Aww... fiddlesticks, this is complicated.

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

12 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

What is considered profanity? The F-word probably, but what about the substitute expressions? And what about swear words that do not fall within the sexual category, but which traditionally were considered very much taboo expressions because they were related to religion, I think, mostly.

Aww... fiddlesticks, this is complicated.

Hello there.

Don't you worry, Wikipedia got you covered. While these are certainly not all words which would weight for the same amount (best example being "damn") it's a good list to check if you are ever unsure.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_swear_words

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_vulgarities

[Ensign Cthulhu]

We certainly don't want to descend to the level of the WG forums, where the whale Moby Dick, the detective Dick Tracy and the actor Dick van Dyke could not be named in full, nor could you write the official Royal Navy acronym for Battle Squadron (i.e. BS), and I'm almost certain that a certain four-letter synonym for a rooster was also not permitted. 

The flipside is the Australian vernacular, where statements like "How ya goin' you old c**t, I haven't seen you in years!" would be interpreted as a gesture of affection and delight at stumbling across a long-lost friend. Clearly the more rough-as-guts Aussies won't mind, but the rest of the world might raise an eyebrow or two! 😂

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

I'll speak as a regular user, not moderator.

NO profanity, period.  There are plenty of creative ways to get a point across and while I personally talk like a sailor IRL, I'm sure there are plenty that don't like it.  I love swear words, but don't think this is the place.

No Politics or Religion, ever!  You want to have problems, allow that.

It's a community and we should always foster good intentions and make it a wholesome place to bit@$  

[Ensign Cthulhu]

1 minute ago, Capt_of_Satisfaction said:

No Politics or Religion, ever!  You want to have problems, allow that.

The problem I found with the no-politics rule is that the division of WG into Lesta and the Rest-a (so to speak) was inextricably bound to current political affairs, and it felt ludicrous to discuss it in a vacuum. We all knew why WG was breaking up with itself but nobody could mention it. 

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

Just now, Ensign Cthulhu said:

We certainly don't want to descend to the level of the WG forums, where the whale Moby Dick, the detective Dick Tracy and the actor Dick van Dyke could not be named in full, nor could you write the official Royal Navy acronym for Battle Squadron (i.e. BS), and I'm almost certain that a certain four-letter synonym for a rooster was also not permitted. 

The flipside is the Australian vernacular, where statements like "How ya goin' you old c**t, I haven't seen you in years!" would be interpreted as a gesture of affection and delight at stumbling across a long-lost friend. Clearly the more rough-as-guts Aussies won't mind, but the rest of the world might raise an eyebrow or two! 😂

^ see, creative.  

 

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

11 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

The problem I found with the no-politics rule is that the division of WG into Lesta and the Rest-a (so to speak) was inextricably bound to current political affairs, and it felt ludicrous to discuss it in a vacuum. We all knew why WG was breaking up with itself but nobody could mention it. 

And that was a good thing,  You can figure out why, it isn't hard.  This isn't Reddit or Twitter.  Perish that thought.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

Just now, Capt_of_Satisfaction said:

Parish that thought.

No religion, remember! 😛

[Admiral_Karasu]

Just now, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

Hello there.

Don't you worry, Wikipedia got you covered. While these are certainly not all words which would weight for the same amount (best example being "damn") it's a good list to check if you are ever unsure.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_swear_words

Hot damn are you going to be filtering out 'damn' too?

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

1 minute ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

No religion, remember! 😛

hahaha, touche

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

Just now, Admiral_Karasu said:

Hot damn are you going to be filtering out 'damn' too?

Don't worry. I only posted the links as a guideline for when you aren't sure if certain words you'll want to use can be considered bad. The word "damn" has lost it's initial weight it had many decades ago so it's very safe to use unless you are using it to point at other people.

Example: "That damn Markus did it again!"

 

[Verblonde]

What about 'zounds' - that's splendidly blasphemous?

[Type_93]

26 minutes ago, Capt_of_Satisfaction said:

NO profanity, period.  There are plenty of creative ways to get a point across

Challenge accepted.  
I tend to use nautical terms to describe some of the more profane situations players find themselves in. 
IE a player has their aft hull section in dry dock for repairs. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Type_93

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

Let's get back on topic for now in discussing moderation in general and how you would and I quote:

1 hour ago, SureBridge said:

So let's see if we can have a civil discussion around how you want the bartender to run the joint 😀

I will still answer you though Verblonde (even if it was sarcastic it might be fair to answer for those who wonder regardless).

Blasphemous remarks usually happen in the context of religion or when religion is implied by using such words so just try staying clear of religion overall and you should be alright.

 

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

1 minute ago, Type_93 said:

Challenge accepted. 

lol, yes, remember when I said, "WG stepped in the smelly brown stuff closing the forum?"  That's what I mean. 

[Type_93]

2 minutes ago, EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico said:

Blasphemous remarks usually happen in the context of religion or when religion is implied by using such words so just try staying clear of religion overall and you should be alright.

I though we were all in Church of RNGsus here?

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

1 minute ago, Type_93 said:

I though we were all in Church of RNGsus here?

Thy will shall be done   

ANOTHER 1080 and 6 ricochets, really?

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

11 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

Challenge accepted.  
I tend to use nautical terms to describe some of the more profane situations players find themselves in. 
IE a player has their aft hull section in dry dock for repairs. 

Yes, you can say that boat has screws! 

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, SureBridge said:

Hello Folks

As recently noted on another thread, this is not the WG forums. Because this is completely volunteer run (and led) we have a bit more flexibility in how we run things. The current guidelines can be found here:

https://www.devstrike.net/guidelines/

It basically boils down to "please be nice to one another"

Things that we are NOT going to back down on are ad-hominum attacks, naming and shaming and the like because this goes downhill fast and makes forums toxic. 

Planning on link-spamming? that's going to get your account nuked.

But there are other things that we should discuss.

Should swearing be banned? or should we assume that folks are grown-ups, and the occasional use of a generally Freaking inappropriate word in a post to add emphasis is deliberate and appropriate? If it isn't then the current (internal) suggestion is to auto-replace with "fiddlesticks".

There are a number of folks that I have interacted with on the "old" forums. Here are the things that I am currently planning to recommend in terms of moderator actions - please let us know if these are good, and if there are other things you would also like to see.

• I would send a reply to anyone who sent a report that I processed, to let them know that we had received a report, that someone was acting on it, and what action was taken. For a number of these it was "no action" and I would explain why the post was within the rules. 
• When anyone was sent a warning, they would get a PM copying the warning (sometimes the "warning" would get lost in the system). letting them know WHY the post in question was a problem, and letting them know what the consequence was (in many cases "just a warning, please don't do this again")
• For some folks, we would have a discussion to articulate exactly where the line was ("you can talk about how it's annoying as heck when you get constant messages for your DD to take a cap and are then unsupported, but you CAN'T say "AdmiralBigBanannas tod me three times to take the cap, and "support this target" and then hid behind a rock")

We all have bad days. As a moderator, it's my job to try and make sure that this is somewhere that you can "agreeably disagree". You can get in an argument at the pub, but if the fists start flying then you are done for the night. If it's a good pub, you'll be back later, and probably continue to have (heated) discussions - but you know that it isn't the sort of place where you ever need to dodge flying furniture. I've gotten to know a lot of folks who regularly post, and while some of them have some "rough edges" they are really good at this game we like to play, and have good points to make. 

So let's see if we can have a civil discussion around how you want the bartender to run the joint 😀

👍

[Slimeball91]

15 minutes ago, Capt_of_Satisfaction said:

No Politics or Religion, ever!  You want to have problems, allow that.

I generally don't like hard and fast rules.  One of the great things about how the old WG forum was run back in the day was the selective enforcement of many rules.  This place is a very small forum, and most likely will remain that way for the foreseeable future, if not it's entire life span.  As a small community it's possible to be more loose with the rules.  A community being able to sort of police itself can be a good thing.  Mods should (gently) steer, not dictate, the direction of the forums.  If the community as a whole shows they can't moderate themselves, them more aggressive work from the mods is in order.  Unfortunately, the norm is for mods to take the easy way out and crack down on the whole community because there is some individual, or small group of people that can't behave.  Seems like there should be a way to allow people to show their "rough edges" while still maintaining some general order here.