Update 12.11 - Post Your Santa's Gifts!

[NMA101]

4 hours ago, Frostbow said:

It is still gambling.

Wholeheartedly agree. The WG defenders use an arbitrarily strict definition of the word, so therefore nothing WG does qualifies as such. I prefer a more generalized definition: "spending money for a game of chance". 

And yes, in my book the Makarov scandal is by far the worst predatory/anti-consumer scam WG has engaged in over the course of the game's history. They purposely did not disclose the proper details (about needing to drop a ship on the shortlist before moving on to the rarer premiums), because explicitly doing so would (likely) lower sales of the lootboxes. A lie by omission by all means. 

The excuse they gave in the aftermath of the outrage "we wanted to simplify the description so it would be easier to understand" is complete BS. First, they apparently provided explanations for the shortlist in a past year (2017?), so clearly they had no issue with that before. Secondly, they are aware the reason the "stereotypical boomer" playerbase has disposable income to spend on these is because many have long careers as experienced professionals. So 2-3 sentences on how the shortlist worked would not be confusing or require some PhD-level knowledge at all. In fact, the overly simplified description "you could win one of these 100+ premium ships" was more misleading than if they simply told the truth. 

I do not know what exactly prompted WG to disclose loot box drop rates (which they resisted for a long time), but it is their best decision in the last 5 years. Very happy the era of "mystery" is over. 

[Prva_paroplavebná]

WG loves me, from one mega crate I have received - Mikoyan 😒😵

Does Russian ships overperfom dropping rate?

[Frostbow]

25 minutes ago, Prva_paroplavebná said:

WG loves me, from one mega crate I have received - Mikoyan 😒😵

Does Russian ships overperfom dropping rate?

At least it is not the notorious Makarov! 😄

11 hours ago, NMA101 said:

Wholeheartedly agree. The WG defenders use an arbitrarily strict definition of the word, so therefore nothing WG does qualifies as such. I prefer a more generalized definition: "spending money for a game of chance". 

And yes, in my book the Makarov scandal is by far the worst predatory/anti-consumer scam WG has engaged in over the course of the game's history. They purposely did not disclose the proper details (about needing to drop a ship on the shortlist before moving on to the rarer premiums), because explicitly doing so would (likely) lower sales of the lootboxes. A lie by omission by all means. 

The excuse they gave in the aftermath of the outrage "we wanted to simplify the description so it would be easier to understand" is complete BS. First, they apparently provided explanations for the shortlist in a past year (2017?), so clearly they had no issue with that before. Secondly, they are aware the reason the "stereotypical boomer" playerbase has disposable income to spend on these is because many have long careers as experienced professionals. So 2-3 sentences on how the shortlist worked would not be confusing or require some PhD-level knowledge at all. In fact, the overly simplified description "you could win one of these 100+ premium ships" was more misleading than if they simply told the truth. 

I do not know what exactly prompted WG to disclose loot box drop rates (which they resisted for a long time), but it is their best decision in the last 5 years. Very happy the era of "mystery" is over. 

I found this thread on Reddit that exposed the scam. It was a total dumpster fire back then.

Good thing WG seemed to have learned from that.

[WildWind84]

Today from 1 free small container (magical nights) drop me Congress 🙂 

[Kruzenstern]

WG does a lot of gambling and shenanigans, but Mega Satan boxes really are more of an investment. I was seriously expecting those to be nerfed as well this year, and pleasantly surprised they were not. Gambling is betting money on getting either something good or nothing at all. Like WGs ship gambles whenever a new line comes out, where there are 60 packages and 59 are crap and one it the big price.

Santa boxes otoh have a 5% chance to reward basically nothing (the silly camos), all other rewards are reasonably valuable and the chance to get rare ships is the icing on the cake. I have been shelling out for 100K dubs each christmas the last three years (my birthday coupon comes right when the christmas event starts which is handy since I get 100K for the price of 50K), and never been disappointed with the results. Imho the best value for money by a huge margin you can get in the game. Of course I gotta say I am in it for the eco boosters as much as the ships, if one has no interest in those juicy boosters for some reason, things are different.

[iDuckman]

5 hours ago, Frostbow said:

At least it is not the notorious Makarov! 😄

Hey, Mak may be notorious, but she's actually pretty good.

I think go buy some CT crates to fill in the lower tiers.

 

A single Big crate:  Nuevo de Julio.

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:00 PM, tocqueville8 said:

Credits and free cpt. xp, in those amounts, are mildly infuriating. The blue booster drop allows to make that several times over, easily.

I was pretty annoyed to get the Hill last year from 5 mega crates (premium battle pass), since she's also available for coal. Or Siroco in the Anniversary. I'm glad I finally got all the Tier 5s, mostly with Community Tokens: they just drag down the value of these drops, otherwise...

This is why I bought every low tier coal premium...now working on the tier 9 and up ones.

23 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Well, no.  It's random results, but it's not really gambling. You don't lose your money as you would making a bet -- you always get something of value.  Okay, you got a washer/dryer while the car was behind door #3.  That is not losing.

 

Interesting line there...'you always get something of value'.

That is a deception.

Price does not equal value in a context with no market.

I have no use for ship experience boosters...they have no value to me. Getting them would be me losing.

[iDuckman]

Yet there are people who want the boosters, the dubs, the coal, the ECXP, etc.  Don't project your values over the population.  The risk isn't for you?  Fine.  Don't spend.

As for "deception", that is straight out bull cookies.  WG tells you exactly what's available and exactly what the odds of that result are.  If there's a more transparent description, pray tell.

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

24 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Yet there are people who want the boosters, the dubs, the coal, the ECXP, etc.  Don't project your values over the population.  The risk isn't for you?  Fine.  Don't spend.

As for "deception", that is straight out bull cookies.  WG tells you exactly what's available and exactly what the odds of that result are.  If there's a more transparent description, pray tell.

 

The point is that my valuation is DIFFERENT than someone else's.

Which means, it's gambling because there are items on offer less than the value of the currency.

Other people's valuations of these items are irrelevant...because there is no market for us to sell or buy items apart from directly from WG.

Being clear, I'm not saying WG is being deceptive...

...I'm saying you claiming the loot boxes aren't gambling is YOU being deceptive.

Maybe because you haven't thought it fully through...or maybe to you the value proposition is always offering something more valuable than the price of playing.

The point is that your position does not logically allow you to categorically claim it is not gambling for all other people. You can only make that claim for yourself.

Don't deceive yourself into thinking your valuation or WGs valuation applies to everything and everyone.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[Taylor3006]

20 hours ago, NMA101 said:

I do not know what exactly prompted WG to disclose loot box drop rates (which they resisted for a long time), but it is their best decision in the last 5 years. Very happy the era of "mystery" is over. 

I know. It was the threat of legislation to require them to do so. They were worried that once lawmakers started looking at their business practices, one that involved a gambling mechanic for a game marketed towards teens, that they would have a metric butt ton of regulations to contend with. It wasn't out of the kindness of their hearts, it was out of fear of government regulation. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:46 AM, Subtle_Octavian said:

I also received West Virginia 44. I'm only missing 9 ships.

Thats an extremely good pull, maybe in reading too much into it but considering youre forum nick, it makes it a bit suss!

[I_cant_Swim_]

16 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

.I'm saying you claiming the loot boxes aren't gambling is YOU being deceptive

Apparently, lootboxes aren't considered gambling in many countries, but are in a few (i know of Belgium). In Europe, some countries are "considering" classifying it as this as well, according to my basic web search. I mentioned "gambling" elsewhere in a post where I only got stuff I didn't consider valuable, but technically for the country i live in this is incorrect. Just a mild case of sour grapes on my part, I guess.

Technically correct - the better kind of correct, I suppose.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

9 minutes ago, I_cant_Swim_ said:

Apparently, lootboxes aren't considered gambling in many countries, but are in a few (i know of Belgium). In Europe, some countries are "considering" classifying it as this as well, according to my basic web search. I mentioned "gambling" elsewhere in a post where I only got stuff I didn't consider valuable, but technically for the country i live in this is incorrect. Just a mild case of sour grapes on my part, I guess.

Technically correct - the better kind of correct, I suppose.

Legally gambling vs what I consider gambling...

...another source of confusion.

😉

[iDuckman]

7 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Legally gambling vs what I consider gambling...

Okay, let's get down under the covers.  You use the word "gambling" as one would use the word "murder".  As if the thing named were intrinsically wrong.  I don't accept that.  I don't believe there are many who would.

The various moves against lootboxes are based on possible promotion to children who might not understand the effects of randomness.  And there are those who object to it on religious grounds, though I somehow doubt you're one of those.

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

Okay, let's get down under the covers.  You use the word "gambling" as one would use the word "murder".  As if the thing named were intrinsically wrong.  I don't accept that.  I don't believe there are many who would.

The various moves against lootboxes are based on possible promotion to children who might not understand the effects of randomness.  And there are those who object to it on religious grounds, though I somehow doubt you're one of those.

 

No, I used the word gambling as a description of a type of commercial activity.

I.e. pay money for a chance to gain preferred value, where there is a chance of receiving a result of less value than is paid in.

I'm not against gambling as something that should be prevented in all cases...

I am against intentionally misrepresenting gambling as something other than gambling.

[I_cant_Swim_]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

No, I used the word gambling as a description of a type of commercial activity.

I.e. pay money for a chance to gain preferred value, where there is a chance of receiving a result of less value than is paid in.

I believe after checking this up on the net again, that this statement is part of the basis for the Belgian law and covered by the term gambling.

Other countries, though, appear to see it not so, stating that what you get independent of the big prizes is not null value, and specified elsewhere.As @iDuckman stated.

So I guess this issue will remain a point of contention. Personally I think it's fine, as long as one can accept the cost and as long as one does not overspend to... get... that... next... crate. It was for this reason (I think) that I posted my unlucky draw above. It's good to be made aware of alternative outcomes.

[Kruzenstern]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

The point is that your position does not logically allow you to categorically claim it is not gambling for all other people. You can only make that claim for yourself.

But you can make the claim that it IS gambling for other people because you don't like some of the rewards? I call that hypocrisy. You can also only make that claim for yourself. I can only state again that Satan Boxes are the best value for money that exists in this game for me. Certainly not gambling, because for me there is only reward, no risk. If you don't like boosters, maybe it is gambling for you then. So don't touch it. But don't go boo hoo its evil gambling. WG is guilty of many shady practices, including gambling, but the Satan Boxes are not one of them.

[Subtle_Octavian]

5 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Thats an extremely good pull, maybe in reading too much into it but considering youre forum nick, it makes it a bit suss!

I just have every other possible ship. The game could only give me 11 ships, so it gave me those. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

3 hours ago, Kruzenstern said:

But you can make the claim that it IS gambling for other people because you don't like some of the rewards? I call that hypocrisy. You can also only make that claim for yourself. I can only state again that Satan Boxes are the best value for money that exists in this game for me. Certainly not gambling, because for me there is only reward, no risk. If you don't like boosters, maybe it is gambling for you then. So don't touch it. But don't go boo hoo its evil gambling. WG is guilty of many shady practices, including gambling, but the Satan Boxes are not one of them.

LoL

I think it is gambling, and I can go boo hoo if I think it appropriate. It's fine that you disagree...

My point is that we can't categorically say that it is or is not gambling for every person...my definition doesn't rule just like yours doesn't.

At the end of the day, I'm not a person in authority...so my opinion can not hurt you.

[BigHeadShrimp]

Just got another ship from the free Santa Big Gift container. My tally from the free containers this season are now Exeter, De Grasse, Tirpitz and Halford. That's a good haul from the free containers.

[tocqueville8]

It was only a matter of time...😒

[Kynami]

Another of the free small crates has dropped a mid tier ship on me. This time its a German carrier. Took it out for a couple spins to at least shake the flake off. It can do a surprising amount of damage for a T6 carrier but oh is the aiming and timing of when to drop very finicky compared to the US and IJN carriers.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Kynami said:

Another of the free small crates has dropped a mid tier ship on me. This time its a German carrier. Took it out for a couple spins to at least shake the flake off. It can do a surprising amount of damage for a T6 carrier but oh is the aiming and timing of when to drop very finicky compared to the US and IJN carriers.

She's a good CV, in my opinion.  The precision of the bombers allows me to hit DD's while playing in scenario operations.  And I've given mine a secondary-battery build, to have mini-Graf Zeppelin memes of fun.
 

[thornzero]

This is my first Christmas season with the game and I've got to say the drops are a bit disappointing. With all the containers thus far I've managed to get camos, boosters, and a bunch of signals.

With a few more containers coming in the pipeline I sure hope my luck changes a little. To be honest, I don't really want another ship from a drop but I would be excited about extra premium time or coal.

I am not in a position to spend money on the game for the time being but man, some people are collecting containers at a furious rate. It really doesn't look like the return is ideal at all.

post edit, about an hour before I made this post some one sent me 8x santa gifts, what a surprise - I did get the usual camo/signals/boosters but also 5oo dubs! What a nice surprise; I am extremely grateful.

Edited December 13, 2023 by thornzero
update

[Subtle_Octavian]

Dropped from a free present of all things. My precious, all I wanted to get this year.