Detonation..Why is this still a thing????

[Guest]

Why is this BS mechanic still around? It's a free RNG gift that can change the course of a games based on total luck and removes player agency. Plus *what the doodle* is the purpose of getting an achievement for this? It's like "Here's a shiny useless badge to remind you of how RNG screwed you over." The achievement is like a final kick in the a** from the game after it screws you over. Getting an achievement for being screwed over by RNG is the epitome of the current state of WG's attitude towards its player base.  Used to be at least you got signals for getting *&^%$ed. I'm glad I only play low tiers and have zero temptation or inclination to spend a dime on their Santa crap. It's a fun ( for the most part) free game but it sure isn't worth spending any money on in it's current state.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Kalishnikat

[Kynami]

Why does it still exist? Because there is a consumable flag tax that has to be paid to not get hosed that way in "ranked" or "clan battles" at minimum.

[Snargfargle]

I've been detonated 89 times out of 14,459 battles in which a ship could be detonated, which is a one detonation out of 162 battles or a 0.6% detonation rate. The only thing I really don't like about detonations is that the graphics are too moderate. If my ship is going to detonate I, by golly, want it to shake the map when it goes up.

[Pugilistic]

I guess because a good proportion of all post-Dreadnought BB combat losses were detonations. There were also two non-combat BB detonations in that period that I can think of.

They WANT to blow up. Every navy on earth would permanently fly a Juliet Charlie lol. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Pugilistic

[MidnightPhoenix07]

48 minutes ago, Kalishnikat said:

It's a free RNG gift that can change the course of a games based on total luck and removes player agency.

And that’s pretty much why it’s always been a thing. You can make the “it’s a historical thing” argument all you want, but that’s probably the gameplay reason. A skill neutralizer. It gives a bad player a chance to kill a good player and potentially flip the match outcome in favor of their team.

And of course you can buy a signal with credits that completely eliminates it, so it can also act as a small credit drain. 

48 minutes ago, Kalishnikat said:

Plus *what the doodle* is the purpose of getting an achievement for this? It's like "Here's a shiny useless badge to remind you of how RNG screwed you over." The achievement is like a final kick in the a** from the game after it screws you over. Getting an achievement for being screwed over by RNG is the epitome of the current state of WG's attitude towards its player base.  Used to be at least you got signals for getting *&^%$ed. 

That’s more a relic of when achievements used to give signals. If you detonated, you at least got some free signals to prevent it in the future. Plus it is an achievement, so it still counts toward any mission that requires getting achievements. Removing them reduces the possible ways to gain progress on those missions.

 

That being said, the chances of detonating are already low, especially in situations where you’re not already close to death anyway. Most detonations I’ve seen and experienced the target was usually almost dead and would probably have died either way, they just got a bad dice roll and detonated to one hit rather than dying to multiple. 

In all my games, I’ve got a handful of detonation achievements. A very small percentage of my trackable games. And I basically never use det signals outside comp modes. I could probably count on two hands the number of times I’ve detonated from higher health in all my randoms games, tracked or test ships. It’s not that big of an influence.

Also, you don’t like detonations because they’re effectively 100% rng. Is it really that different from a battleship getting a lucky shot on a broadside cruiser and nuking it from full health with citadels? Or a Venezia smacking a destroyer with SAP for 80%+ of its health? There’s more skill that could be involved there, but in the end your dispersion is still down to rng. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by MidnightPhoenix07

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Kalishnikat said:

Why is this BS mechanic still around? It's a free RNG gift that can change the course of a games based on total luck and removes player agency. Plus *what the doodle* is the purpose of getting an achievement for this? It's like "Here's a shiny useless badge to remind you of how RNG screwed you over." The achievement is like a final kick in the a** from the game after it screws you over. Getting an achievement for being screwed over by RNG is the epitome of the current state of WG's attitude towards its player base.  Used to be at least you got signals for getting *&^%$ed. I'm glad I only play low tiers and have zero temptation or inclination to spend a dime on their Santa crap. It's a fun ( for the most part) free game but it sure isn't worth spending any money on in it's current state.

The Hood.  One in a million shot.  And. "Detonation".
The Death Star.  "Great shot kid, that was one in a million!"  Detonation.
The Grissom.  One hit from a Klingon photon-torpedo, and *Detonation*.  "A lucky shot sir!" - the last words of the Klingon gunner.
 

Ships going *BOOM* is a thing.  🙂 

Meanwhile, aboard Spaceball-1, they're "doing their best".  🙂 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[Kynami]

2 hours ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

That being said, the chances of detonating are already low, especially in situations where you’re not already close to death anyway.

Unless you are that unlucky destroyer that dodged the rounds an annoyed battleship sent your way but the HE splash in the water was close enough to count against your magazine. I'll grant that it is a very low chance for most ships. But it is just a bit higher for destroyers than the other ship classes from my experience. Because over half the times I've been detonated in game were at the helm of a destroyer.

The most memorable time I've done it to somebody else was the poor Bismarck that took one singular torpedo right against the waterline under the front turrets at ~90% health and went boom from it.

[Aethervox]

Why not? Once on a while a ship does 'detonate'. It's rare now. & use the flag.

[Verytis]

I can tell you my Zorkiy has a detonation rate of ~20% from the 58 matches I've got on it.

Gunboat DDs that have to deal with HE splashing around them tend to suffer noticeably from it.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Verytis

[xamdam]

I remember the first time I detonated a Yamato, long before I was able to get my own. I couldn't believe my eyes. That was about 8 years ago though. Now it's more like, aww shucks man, that sux. 

[Kruzenstern]

I remember once detonating a Bismarck with my Hood. I found that poetic.

Alas, Dets really are only a serious threat for DDs, thats why I take the flag on every DD. Other ships, it happens once in a blue moon and I can deal with that.

[desmo_2]

I use det flags on all destroyers in Random mode (I have hundreds of them).  I don't use any flags in Co-op.

My detonation rate is extremely low...less than 1%, and maybe less than 0.5%. So, not an issue for me in Random.  I get detonated from time to time in Co-op since I don't use flags on my destroyers there, but even then it typically happens when I am already down to 25% or less health.

The existence of detonations in this game does not bother me.

Edited December 6, 2023 by desmo_2

[Ensign Cthulhu]

13 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

Why is this BS mechanic still around?

Ask the crews of the Hood, Invincible, Indefatigable, Queen Mary and Mutsu that question. 

[DoW_]

Can choose a module in slot 1 to lower the possibility by 70%…or a flag to completely eliminate it all together.  I only mount the flag if using blue or red boosters

[Helstrem]

11 hours ago, Kynami said:

Unless you are that unlucky destroyer that dodged the rounds an annoyed battleship sent your way but the HE splash in the water was close enough to count against your magazine. I'll grant that it is a very low chance for most ships. But it is just a bit higher for destroyers than the other ship classes from my experience. Because over half the times I've been detonated in game were at the helm of a destroyer.

The most memorable time I've done it to somebody else was the poor Bismarck that took one singular torpedo right against the waterline under the front turrets at ~90% health and went boom from it.

You need to be below 75% health to have any chance of detonation at all.

[AdmiralThunder]

14 hours ago, Kruzenstern said:

I remember once detonating a Bismarck with my Hood. I found that poetic.

Alas, Dets really are only a serious threat for DDs, thats why I take the flag on every DD. Other ships, it happens once in a blue moon and I can deal with that.

Actually BB's taking torps right under the turrets is not that uncommon. 

[AdmiralThunder]

This topic comes up now and then and it is such a NON ISSUE it blows my mind how upset people get over it.

People need to get over this. It is not a BS mechanic it is actually one of the few things this game can point to and say yup that's real and actually has happened. It is also a very common sense thing too and not something WG made up to torture us. Hit the magazine where ammo is stored, set said ammo off in one massive explosion, and the ship will go BOOM! Simple...common...sense! The fact CV's and Subs don't detonate, not that the other classes do, is the real BS as it relates to detonations in this game not that we have them.

Why people act like they are fantasy is beyond me. I know WOWS is a game but the game is at least somewhat based on IRL. Unlimited torps, ammo, planes, etc..., Subs as implemented, BB shells only doing 10% overpen damage to a DD when 1 shell would rip a DD in 1/2 IRL, etc... are far more outlandish and BS then detonations. WG even "nerfed" detonations by making it so a ship has to be down to 75% or less to do it which is foolish and not "real". People love to holler for historical accuracy (or criticize WG when it isn't) until something they don't like that is historical is discussed and then it becomes BS? Ummm...ok...whatever.

Most people detonate in less than 1% of their games. My personal Randoms rate is 2 detonations for 1473 games = 0.1357773252%. I have detonated quite a few times in Co-op over 43K games but I have no way to track it. It's probably a slightly higher rate there (maybe 1-2% - still rare there) for people seeing as the games are played much closer and ships like DD's face secondary threats far more often but even then it is still rare.

I mean it is such a rare thing it baffles me how upset people get over it and the rants we see about it. WG isn't going to remove it (good!) so your options are...

1. run the flag and 100% eliminate it possibly happening
2. if you can't or don't want to spend the credits for the flag ^^^ run MM1 in slot 1 and that is -70% chance
3. just play and don't worry about something so rare and uncommon; laugh when you do it to someone else, $#@* when it happens to you for about 2 sec, then move on to a new game
4. complain and whine all the time on the forums (here, Reddit, etc...) where it won't do one bit of good

I suggest some form of or combo of 1-3.

[Pugilistic]

4 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

This topic comes up now and then and it is such a NON ISSUE it blows my mind how upset people get over it.

People need to get over this. It is not a BS mechanic it is actually one of the few things this game can point to and say yup that's real and actually has happened. It is also a very common sense thing too and not something WG made up to torture us. Hit the magazine where ammo is stored, set said ammo off in one massive explosion, and the ship will go BOOM! Simple...common...sense! The fact CV's and Subs don't detonate, not that the other classes do, is the real BS as it relates to detonations in this game not that we have them.

Why people act like they are fantasy is beyond me. I know WOWS is a game but the game is at least somewhat based on IRL. Unlimited torps, ammo, planes, etc..., Subs as implemented, BB shells only doing 10% overpen damage to a DD when 1 shell would rip a DD in 1/2 IRL, etc... are far more outlandish and BS then detonations. WG even "nerfed" detonations by making it so a ship has to be down to 75% or less to do it which is foolish and not "real". People love to holler for historical accuracy (or criticize WG when it isn't) until something they don't like that is historical is discussed and then it becomes BS? Ummm...ok...whatever.

Most people detonate in less than 1% of their games. My personal Randoms rate is 2 detonations for 1473 games = 0.1357773252%. I have detonated quite a few times in Co-op over 43K games but I have no way to track it. It's probably a slightly higher rate there (maybe 1-2% - still rare there) for people seeing as the games are played much closer and ships like DD's face secondary threats far more often but even then it is still rare.

I mean it is such a rare thing it baffles me how upset people get over it and the rants we see about it. WG isn't going to remove it (good!) so your options are...

1. run the flag and 100% eliminate it possibly happening
2. if you can't or don't want to spend the credits for the flag ^^^ run MM1 in slot 1 and that is -70% chance
3. just play and don't worry about something so rare and uncommon; laugh when you do it to someone else, $#@* when it happens to you for about 2 sec, then move on to a new game
4. complain and whine all the time on the forums (here, Reddit, etc...) where it won't do one bit of good

I suggest some form of or combo of 1-3.

Correct. If you hate it, take action. The last time I detonated in PvP was early 2017 or before. 

[Jakob Knight]

Others have pointed out the reflection on real world conditions of ship construction, where nothing ever achieves perfect design and construction, and any of a number of factors can contribute to a ship suddenly being lost.  I will address the question from a game design standpoint.

 

Detonation serves several game aspects.  First is that it incentivises those players who care about their ship survivability to take measures and benefit from those measures, while allowing those who want to cut corners and take chances to gain advantage in doing so.  There are modules and flags to reduce or even eliminate entirely the chance of a detonation, and a player that chooses to forgo those can save credits and install something else while possibly paying for that decision if luck turns poorly for them.  The mechanics are such that it is very probable they won't even qualify for a detonation before their ship goes down as well.  However, if they wish to gamble their ship's survival to get a little more performance or credits, they have that option.

 

Second, it allows a unit that may be outmatched in any other way a small chance to prevail, encouraging players to fight until their ship goes down and not to give up as long as there is a chance to win by a lucky shot.  Keep firing, and you may be saved once in a blue moon.

 

Lastly, it cautions against overexposing your ship to fire, encouraging players to avoid assuming they know exactly how much damage they can take and having confidence that they cannot lose an engagement, promoting more risk assessment beyond 'hold the button down until the target is dead'.

 

I don't expect these reasons to prevent this thread from being reposted again and again by those who refuse to accept a level of uncertainty in their gaming, but those are game reasons why the mechanic most likely will stay and continuing to post the same thread again and again is pointless, especially when this site is not tied to anyone with the ability to change the game.

 

 

[MrWastee]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:32 AM, Verytis said:

I can tell you my Zorkiy has a detonation rate of ~20% from the 58 matches I've got on it.

Gunboat DDs that have to deal with HE splashing around them tend to suffer noticeably from it.

anyone can find the mistake?

[kriegerfaust]

BB shells only doing 10% overpen damage to a DD when 1 shell would rip a DD in 1/2 IRL

 

The Battle off Samar: The Sacrifice of “Taffy 3”

On 15 October 1944, the Japanese Imperial Navy’s First Mobile Fleet launched Operation Shō, a last-ditch attempt to engage Allied naval forces off Leyte in the central Philippines decisively. Following the 24 October Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, the powerful Japanese First Diversion Attack Force (“Center Force”) appeared to be retiring westward. However, the task force ultimately resumed its eastward passage, broke out of the San Bernardino Strait north of Samar early the following day, and headed southward toward Leyte Gulf. The Japanese Northern Force, a carrier task force, had drawn Admiral William F. Halsey’s U.S. Third Fleet to the north. The heavy forces of Vice Admiral Thomas C. Kinkaid’s U.S. Seventh Fleet were engaged to the south of Leyte Gulf. This left only three Seventh Fleet escort carrier (CVE) task units on the northern flank of the Leyte operational area, where they had been providing close air support and an ASW screen for the amphibious landings. Just after sunrise on 25 October, Rear Admiral Clifton A. F. Sprague’s TG 77.4.3—call sign “Taffy 3”—the northwesterly-most task unit, made up of six small escort carriers, three destroyers, and four destroyer escorts, was stunned to confront four Japanese battleships (among them Yamato with her 18-inch main guns), six heavy cruisers, two light cruisers, and 11 destroyers.

so yes overpen is real, heavy guns can devastate thin skinned ships but then can also hit areas and do little damage

i am far more repulsed by light cruisers bouncing battleship shells at any angle

Edited December 7, 2023 by kriegerfaust

[YouSatInGum]

Of the IRL comparisons, it sure seems like the Hood is the first example that players tend to think of on the subject of detonations.

I've also noticed that the conception that players tend to have is that Bismark got a lucky shot in that directly hit a weak spot leading into the powder bunkers.

While those that could confirm this were all lost, it has been hypothesized that poor shell procedures and possibly even safety devices like double flash doors to the Powder bunker was at least a contributing cause to the loss if not a major factor in resulting chain reaction from the 5" bunkers to the main bunker/fuel explosions.

 

 

[Guest]

While I appreciate y'all's ideas regarding detonation, I still feel, that even though it's rare, any game mechanic that relies 100% on RNG or "luck" is a bad game mechanic. Make a mistake and get dev striked..that's fair, aim well and hit the dead strike..also fair. Fire dumb luck salvo or torp that just happens by pure luck to hit the sweet spot and removes a player from the game? Bad bad game design. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions. 

[Airacobra]

14 minutes ago, Kalishnikat said:

While I appreciate y'all's ideas regarding detonation, I still feel, that even though it's rare, any game mechanic that relies 100% on RNG or "luck" is a bad game mechanic. Make a mistake and get dev striked..that's fair, aim well and hit the dead strike..also fair. Fire dumb luck salvo or torp that just happens by pure luck to hit the sweet spot and removes a player from the game? Bad bad game design. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions. 

At certain ranges you can aim for those sweet spots and increase your odds of producing a detonation..at least higher odds than a random hit.  You CAN aim for just the right spots; ask any Yamato driver how often that "cheek" spot gets hit.  I sure aim for weak spots given the chance.  It can make brawling a harrowing experience.

[RedLimitFreeway]

8 hours ago, Airacobra said:

At certain ranges you can aim for those sweet spots and increase your odds of producing a detonation..at least higher odds than a random hit.  You CAN aim for just the right spots; ask any Yamato driver how often that "cheek" spot gets hit.  I sure aim for weak spots given the chance.  It can make brawling a harrowing experience.

I am reminded of one of the Operations–the name escapes me, but it is the one where the team is protecting the naval base from waves of enemy ships and the main wave arrives in something like 10 minutes. A bot-controlled Yamato makes an appearance in this scenario. I am often playing CLs like the Fiji and Edinburgh in these ops. More than once I have been dev struck by a long-distance salvo from the Yamato. And I mean sudden-onset terminal "Boom!" In one case I was in a full brawl with attacking DDs and CAs, and the distant Yamato was not even in my situational awareness. It took me out at a range of nearly 20 km!!! One, big surprise, Kerpow! While I shrugged it off and went right into the next op, I have to say it was somewhat irritating because I was having so much fun being caught up in the excitement of the brawl, only to have it taken away in an instant from an attacker that was nowhere near the close-quarters action, and indeed one that I could not even reach with my main guns if I had wanted to send a reply. I can certainly understand how people can get emotional when this kind of thing happens.

In any event, theses days I keep a very close watch on distant BBs in that particular operation.

-best

Edited December 8, 2023 by RedLimitFreeway