Meanwhile in Russia.......

[MrWastee]

3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

My half baked idea is to have ships spotting range (the range at which they see enemies) be uniform for the tier.

Ships which need better 'concealment', like DDs, etc...have maluses to the dispersion of ships shooting at them.

This gets rid of the whole binary spotted / invisible silliness and changes the meta considerably...ships can more easily push because torpedo threat is more certain, but DD survivability would improve when under fire.

Things like radar would add bonuses to a ships dispersion, rather than act as a spotting tool.

Such a major change would need considerable balancing work and tweaking to make work though. The amount of work required would make this relatively unattractive if the dev teams are busy.

erm.... technically this implies the necessity for hat spotting range to match gunfire range on the biggest boats. thus would basically remove any (open water) concealment as we know it. making stacked dispersion debuffs annoying af, especially short range.

this would remove a lot of tactical gampeplay as well. the ammount of work equals a whole new game imo. me no gusto.

[Admiral_Karasu]

8 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

erm.... technically this implies the necessity for hat spotting range to match gunfire range on the biggest boats. thus would basically remove any (open water) concealment as we know it. making stacked dispersion debuffs annoying af, especially short range.

this would remove a lot of tactical gampeplay as well. the ammount of work equals a whole new game imo. me no gusto.

Shouldn't the visual range be shorter than the gun range? Currently in WoWS, it is and isn't, because in terms of concealment it is, but since you get to 'see' ships spotted by others it actually isn't. This is something I've never liked in WG games. Not in WoT, and even less in WoWS.

[MrWastee]

14 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Shouldn't the visual range be shorter than the gun range? Currently in WoWS, it is and isn't, because in terms of concealment it is, but since you get to 'see' ships spotted by others it actually isn't. This is something I've never liked in WG games. Not in WoT, and even less in WoWS.

so, where would be the sense in having 20km gunrange while only spotting ships on 10km? under which circumstances this range would make any sense? isn't support fire a thing translated by the actual cross spotting, fitting the arcade style of the game? should it only be possible by minimap?

..... no thx.... u talk a different game imo.

[Admiral_Karasu]

21 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

so, where would be the sense in having 20km gunrange while only spotting ships on 10km? under which circumstances this range would make any sense? isn't support fire a thing translated by the actual cross spotting, fitting the arcade style of the game? should it only be possible by minimap?

..... no thx.... u talk a different game imo.

Well.. yes, I thought that was at least half the point of this discussion, or was it the other discussion, they seem to overpen.. I mean overlap a bit.

Let's say we had a uniform tier based visual ranges, ideally made dependent on weather which we only have to some degree currently. If we also had minimap spotting... we'd be firing with visual targeting within the visual range, and potentially firing based on minimap beyond the visual range. Or move closer. In effect, I think we'd be getting tactical game play as a result.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, MrWastee said:

erm.... technically this implies the necessity for hat spotting range to match gunfire range on the biggest boats. thus would basically remove any (open water) concealment as we know it. making stacked dispersion debuffs annoying af, especially short range.

this would remove a lot of tactical gampeplay as well. the ammount of work equals a whole new game imo. me no gusto.

It would be a different game...though saying it removes tactical gameplay is a bit of a stretch.

More like it makes tactical gameplay DIFFERENT.

[MrWastee]

23 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Well.. yes, I thought that was at least half the point of this discussion, or was it the other discussion, they seem to overpen.. I mean overlap a bit.

Let's say we had a uniform tier based visual ranges, ideally made dependent on weather which we only have to some degree currently. If we also had minimap spotting... we'd be firing with visual targeting within the visual range, and potentially firing based on minimap beyond the visual range. Or move closer. In effect, I think we'd be getting tactical game play as a result.

it simply would change the tactical approach. more simulative, more challenging in a lot of ways while "visually less rewarding". the actual inability of most players regarding the map given, more frustrating for the casual bob for sure.

this ain't the game.

Edited December 1, 2023 by MrWastee

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 minute ago, MrWastee said:

it simply would change the tactical approach. more simulative, more challenging in a lot of ways while "visually less rewarding". more frustrating for the casual bob for sure, the actual ability of most players to not be able to even read the map given.

this ain't the game.

I'm not quite sure if it were more frustrating than what we currently have. It would be different, I agree with you on that.

[MrWastee]

14 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

I'm not quite sure if it were more frustrating than what we currently have. It would be different, I agree with you on that.

less immersive, less interactive. people come to play wheee, not clicking on a map or looking at an empty screen. and these occasions would get more frequent, as players would see way less of everything in matches overall. do i need to point on the reasoning for the reeeework? action baby, that's what we need lol^^...

i'm sry, but won't happen, simple. if they now tweak spotting on planes it brings those in line with the given mechanics finally. no way they'd rebuild spotting fully afterwards.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

4 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

less immersive, less interactive. people come to play wheee, not clicking on a map or looking at an empty screen. and these occasions would get more frequent, as players would see way less of everything in matches overall. do i need to point on the reasoning for the reeeework? action baby, that's what we need lol^^...

i'm sry, but won't happen, simple. if they now tweak spotting on planes it brings those in line with the given mechanics finally. no way they'd rebuild spotting fully afterwards.

If they make plane spotting minimap only, then it becomes exactly what you claim shouldn't be...people seeing way less of everything.

In my proposal, people would see way more of everything...but have a harder time hitting smaller targets.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[MrWastee]

10 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

If they make plane spotting minimap only, then it becomes exactly what you claim shouldn't be...people seeing way less of everything.

In my proposal, people would see way more of everything...but have a harder time hitting smaller targets.

note: >PLANE< spotting and          (*plane spotting is the only factor >fully< breaking any spotting mechanic/interaction in this game)

15 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

[...] it brings those in line with the given mechanics finally. no way they'd rebuild spotting fully afterwards.

Edited December 1, 2023 by MrWastee

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

37 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

note: >PLANE< spotting and          (*plane spotting is the only factor >fully< breaking any spotting mechanic/interaction in this game)

I disagree with that...seems we want different things.

[MrWastee]

23 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I disagree with that...seems we want different things.

well, i don't "want" anything in particular lol ^^... and i'm fine with what we got, hence i kinda got i want. i'm just trying to tell u, u won't get what u want in this game referring on ur proposal.

[tfcas119]

Russia is a real double edged sword. You see a dev blog making CVs minimap spotting only (something 90% of the playerbase has asked for for years) then the very next one is this. Closed Testing 13.0 - New Ships - Dev Blog (korabli.su)

T11 subs, Delaware with SAP secondaries, Fuel Smoke, and FDR rockets every 30secs makes you want to go back to EU.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

57 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

well, i don't "want" anything in particular lol ^^... and i'm fine with what we got, hence i kinda got i want. i'm just trying to tell u, u won't get what u want in this game referring on ur proposal.

Are you WG staff?

🙂

If not, your negativity is ignored.

[3LUE]

On 11/30/2023 at 8:43 PM, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Subs will be the spotters...

You think the guys playing the most team oriented ship in the game will just want to damage farm...

LOL

A major reason people talk about rework CVs as boring is the damage farming mechanics...

I am a CV main and I always try and spot what I can for the team, but this change if it goes live on NA will take that away that from me and I will be left with nothing but damage farming. Damage farming does not win games but that is the direction WG is going. We still will be able to show where they are on the minimap so that is something. I feel the minimap spotting won't help many teams do to the fact way to many players do not know what to do with the info they get from it. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by 3LUE

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

So basically, you're saying we should just accept every BS thing WG could possibly throw at us without any objection, because they "Communicate" (as well as they can) in dev blogs and website. 

None of us should have any issue with this because look at the "really bad" (looking anxiously at moderators ...) situation the Apollo 13 crew had to deal with. I agree with you, compared to what they went thru, plane spotting in a warship game kind of pales in comparison.

I just gotta ask, do you get angry/upset over anything .... like ever?! Please tell me what!

LOL  😄 

I've been there, done that with getting upset on a number of occasions.
In the past I have ...
1.  Objected to the cv-rework.
2. Objected to the reduction in the number of torpedoes that Hosho's torpedo squadron can launch (the change was from two torpedoes per drop reduced to one torpedo per drop).
3.  Was upset enough about something (in the past) regarding WG/WOWs behavior/quality-control and tagged (spelling check?) "Ev1" one too many times and got a 24 hour forum-ban courtesy of Boggzy.
4.  Have been cussed-at, in-game, on the old forum and in a private message on this forum.  All water under the bridge now.  Not going to share details.
5.  Boycotted spending money in WOWs as a gesture of support for LittleWhiteMouse during the CC exodus / debacle.  (I closed my wallet until LittleWhiteMouse announced that WOWs had sufficiently patched-up their relationship with her for everyone to get on with their lives.)
6.  I've commented on Mighty Jingles youtube videos when I felt his "salt" towards CV's was uncalled for and unjustifiable in certain instances.
7.  Other stuff in real life, which isn't WOWs related.  So, I'm leaving it off of the figurative table, here.

At what point does "getting upset" improve my capabilty to think cogently and play my ship well?  🙂 

 

Quote

Control anger before it controls you
Anger can make you feel as though you’re at the mercy of an unpredictable and powerful emotion. Learn how to control it.
https://www.apa.org/topics/anger/control

As a reward for reading the linked article, I offer you this image of bacon.  🙂 
  
 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[ArIskandir]

8 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

So basically, you're saying we should just accept every BS thing WG could possibly throw at us without any objection, because they "Communicate" (as well as they can) in dev blogs and website. 

 

I just gotta ask, do you get angry/upset over anything .... like ever?! Please tell me what!

Well... 

A) Getting angry, cranky and blitcning about it won't solve anything most of the time

B) You can "suffer" the BS thrown at you or you can make the BS thrown at you suffer. The choice is yours

C) There's not better way to "get back at them" than not being frustrated by something designed to be frustrating. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 hours ago, Asym said:

A golf swing is all about "tuned muscle memory with a mental focus on the elimination of distraction or desire....."

(I play golf with one hand and what is left of my right....which, isn't much.)  Let's talk about golf swings.

Defeat most assuredly is a reality and assured.  It's not the lack of effort, nor skill, nor situational awareness; or wanting to be part of some quasi team....  It's because the game assures my defeat...  I quit Randoms because that was all there was.  No matter whom was with me, the game itself saw to it, somehow. assure a loss and that was all there was....  So, I walked away.  Now, after accidentally loading three Random matches over the past two years......what did I see?  Curb stomp massive losses with me being #1 of the dead or in the top 2....  There was no conceivable way I could survive.  In one match, I was the last player in my Fabuki and all I had to do was live........then there was constant Radar.......then, the planes just wouldn't stop.....Game over Man.......with no way to defend myself. 

Oh yes Wolfie, Defeat is inevitable if I am anywhere near a PVP match....  Resistance is Futile....

  
 

[New_Jersey_prpr]

6 hours ago, tfcas119 said:

Russia is a real double edged sword. You see a dev blog making CVs minimap spotting only (something 90% of the playerbase has asked for for years) then the very next one is this. Closed Testing 13.0 - New Ships - Dev Blog (korabli.su)

T11 subs, Delaware with SAP secondaries, Fuel Smoke, and FDR rockets every 30secs makes you want to go back to EU.

The CV spotting mechanic change, while being a good change overall, also makes submarine less vulderable, or let's be straightforward, buffing submarines.

From what I heard from people playing on RU server, many players at that server lack skill (and enlarges submarine's weakness in survivability), which can be a potential reason RU server is even buffing subs.

As for those T11 subs, definitely not something I want to see, it's sad that Lesta put their effort in those stuff.

Edited December 2, 2023 by New_Jersey_prpr

[SeaQuest]

I think WG knows that the game is losing players faster than getting new ones and they are trying to change things that are driving players away.  Tonight NA server only 6k players on the server on a Friday night. Last weekend was no better. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by SeaQuest

[Kratbowl]

Judging by the approximately equal ratio of pros and cons in that ru-topic, it’s not just the cv-fans who are dissatisfied. It's not as great an implementation as you might think.

By the way, I somehow missed the moment when Flamu was bought by Lesta. At first I thought it was some kind of joke. And “meanwhile in Russia” they are introducing super-subs (2 at once!) into the test in 13.0, do you really need it? Is this what you crave?

Edited December 2, 2023 by Kratbowl

[Andrewbassg]

3 hours ago, 3LUE said:

I am a CV main and I always try and spot what I can for the team, but this change if it goes live on NA will take that away that from me and I will be left with nothing but damage farming. Damage farming does not win games but that is the direction WG is going. 

Umm....no offence, but proper target selection is what wins games. Raking up kills is what wins games. And yes, raking up damage, paired with the other two is what wins games.

3 hours ago, 3LUE said:

We still will be able to show where they are on the minimap so that is something. I feel the minimap spotting won't help many teams do to the fact way to many players do not know what to do with the info they get from i

 🙂 What makes you think, that the team who can't utilise that information, deserves to win? Don't get me wrong, I'lm not adversarial on this, I'm just asking. 🙂 

[NMA101]

11 minutes ago, SeaQuest said:

I think WG knows that the game is losing players faster than getting new ones and they are trying to change things that are driving players away.  Tonight NA server only 6k players on the server on a Friday night. Last weekend was no better. 

In case you want to explore the data more: https://stats.wotapi.ru/stats/wows/na/total

Yes, the decline on the NA server is quite significant. Player count is 30%!!! lower than 2019 (so even worse than before the pandemic caused a temporary spike).

EU is roughly stagnant (i.e. all the gains during the pandemic era are gone). The numbers would be worse if not for the influx of RU players migrating over after the 2022 Ukraine war. 

2023 Asia numbers are also roughly comparable to 2019 levels. However, the trendline is worse than EU as there is no counter-force to balance the outflow. 

We shall see if the numbers go up during the holidays, usually there is a bit of a bump as people log in to collect their snowflake rewards. 

@YouSatInGummay have more insight into player statistics?

[Andrewbassg]

4 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I've....

All of that are very good points. Still...

4 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

6.  I've commented on Mighty Jingles youtube videos when I felt his "salt" towards CV's was uncalled for and unjustifiable in certain instances.

Cv's drove more people off from this game than anything else, arguably combined. There is no such thing as "enough" criticism, levelled against the class...

And EU was always much more combative, on this subject, also generally,then NA. There is a reason why Eu mods insituted those two( CV, Sub) megathreads and banned otherwise  discussions about the subjects. Well....it was also "convenient".....

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

All of that are very good points. Still...

Cv's drove more people off from this game than anything else, arguably combined. There is no such thing as "enough" criticism, levelled against the class...

And EU was always much more combative, on this subject, also generally,then NA. There is a reason why Eu mods insituted those two( CV, Sub) megathreads and banned otherwise  discussions about the subjects. Well....it was also "convenient".....

CVs are a trash class. They exist to dishearten other players. Game tonight, I killed my oppsing BBs, captured 2 caps, time was ticking away but to our win but I get killed by the CV which spends its game sitting far away in safety existing only to sh*t on other players who actually play the game. Nothing I could do. There is NOTHING in gaming more frustrating than an opponent  that you can't counter. I can't tell you the number of times CVs have made me curse at this game. The entire experience would be so much more fun without them.