Best steel ship currently available

[Captain_Rawhide]

Hey, I know I left this wide open, but this is exactly the conversation I was hoping for.  

[Unlooky]

9 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Dunno what's best. I got a few, getting Stalingrad maybe next though it seems boring.

 

Shikishima is trash, don't buy it. You don't want a six gun battleship when Yamato exists. Secondary memes are just memes, gun sound isn't worth all the steel.

Plymouth is a nice cruiser if you can't decide if you'd want to run smoke or radar on Minotaur. It can be very strong when you get to contest areas with Plymouth abilities, also since Petropavlovsk and other actually useful cruisers have gone extinct, you aren't countered often. If you'd like to do everything and be useful for your team instead of maximum damage numbers, this ship is for you.

Bourgogne is quite strong though disappointing in the way you play it in current meta. It has also been cursed to forever deal 200+k damage and lose every game. 

Ragnar I just hate and I don't know how anybody gets it to work. It's like a worse Elbing with radar instead of smoke and torpedoes. Or a slower, worse Kleber/Khabarovsk. I probably suck in it, but I'm not afraid of it either in anything.

Z-42 also feels much like either a less strong Harugumo or a less practical Daring. Or just in all ways worse than Daring. Get Daring. Ignore Kriegsmarine.

 

Some opinions on the rest :

FDR doesn't seem intresting even for a carrier, and if I decide to grief with flying gocarts I want them to go as fast as possible. 

Mecklenburg looks a lot like a HE spammer with German armor. Why? Who wants this?

Incomparable is another 6 gun battleship and I would guess it's superannuated by St. Vincent. But it's not as butt ugly as Vincent, so maybe. 

Austin at least has something going for it, but I don't care about SAP and I already have Colbert anyway. Another maybe, though I suspect that I would always just prefer other light cruisers instead.

Gato no

Stalingrad is the other cookie cutter choice everybody used to recommend. Hard to see what it offers over UU Petropavlovsk. Seems like 99% of Stalingrads park somewhere and have much fun shooting at sterns of kiting ships to little effect which tells me it lacks something critical. 

Vallejo seems intresting actually. Weaker, less useful Worcester at T9 but with better ballistics. Why yes please, I would like such a thing. I hate american ballistics.

Recommending Vallejo over nearly every other steel ship in the game is... certainly a take of all time. Mecklenburg is like a BB Hindenburg, and similarly, if you are spamming HE the entire time, you are wasting your ship.

While Shikishima is certainly not unique, dismissing it as trash is also incorrect. At the end of the day, it's still a Yamato sidegrade, and is just as deadly as Yamato herself.

For Plymouth, it's important to note that while Plymouth can be a very, very impactful ship, Plymouth captains must be wary of the mass proliferation of 16mm overmatch, and Malta AP bombers. It's not as pretty of a picture as you paint it to be. 

Bourgogne is recommended because of how fun it is to play. Great burst damage and speed with good concealment makes Bourgogne extremely deadly to inattentive teams, while remaining a dynamic and interesting platform.

Ragnar is a great ship and if you get caught bow in to one while playing a torpedo/hybrid DD, you might as well return to port now. Of course, the small gun count and extreme accuracy depends heavily on player aim to function. I'm not sure why you would describe it as an "Elbing without smoke and torpedoes" when it plays absolutely nothing like Elbing. 

Z-42 functions as a hybrid between Harugumo and Daring. Against broadside DDs it's firepower is exceptional, superior to both Harugumo or Daring, but otherwise it is inferior. 6km hydro gives it superior vision utility. It's more of a Z-52 with a few of the Harugumo/Daring gimmicks. Not overpowered, but still sufficiently strong. 

I'd agree with your assessment of FDR. Everyone remembers getting nuked for 20k by FDR planes, but nobody remembers having to actually fly those planes for a minute and a half, and then having to wait 30 seconds for a follow up strike. Honestly FDR is one of the worst designed ships in the game. Literally nobody has fun either way of playing it. 

I've already addressed Mecklenburg but again: Use the AP. 

Incomparable has very good concealment by cruiser standards, since it literally outspots DM. I plan on picking up Incomparable next, a fast, stealthy ship with devastating guns is a good selling point for the ship. Of course 6 gun syndrome will happen but with the battlecruiser dispersion formula and 2.0 sigma, it's not exactly a Gneisenau.

Austin is played solely for those 15 seconds of fun. It's a meme ship, probably the most out of any steel ship, and anyone seeking to buy her should be well aware of that.

If he wants the absolute "best" steel ship then there is no other choice than Gato. Of course, if you are a person of decent moral standing, you won't buy the Gato, but to answer his original question, this would be the ship.

Stalingrad and Petro are hardly comparable. For starters, Stalingrad can actually do damage against heavily angled targets and destroyers with decent HE, and is effective at all ranges. Stalingrad's AP pens more, overmatches 16mm, has a better ricochet check angle, and has a shorter arming threshold and fuse than Petropavlovsk. Of course Stalingrad burns for 60 seconds and is a significantly larger target, but this is offset by UU Petro only having 3 heals. While Stalingrad seeks flanking/sniping positions, Petropavlovsk can afford to play closer to the action. If you were to simply "park and shoot the stern of kiting ships," you would find Stalingrad to be much more effective in that position, with it's superior AP performance, ranged accuracy, and actually being able to use HE, if it comes to that. 

 

Finally, Vallejo is indisputably the worst steel ship in the game currently, both performance wise and value wise. All other steel ships have something unique to offer. Vallejo does not. No utility to speak of, reduced DPM, and she still remains a fragile platform. I would take 1 Azuma.. Tulsa, or 1 Siegfried or even 1 of just about any CA over 2 Vallejos on my team any day of the week. Tier 9 has so many HE spammers already that there is no greater waste of steel than not only a T9 ship, but one which fullfills a role that every other cruiser available for coal or in tech tree does. Are you truly willing to pay 22,000 steel, or your resource coupon for whats effectively a T9 Lazo? There is a reason this is the 3rd least played ship available for purchase at high tiers. Vallejo simply is a colossal waste of steel.    

[YouSatInGum]

5 hours ago, Otago_F111 said:

any noise about new steel ships coming up?

No.

 

...and the rate of new models being introduced seems to have drastically slowed as of late... more than one streamer has hypothesized this is due the the Lesta/WG split.

 

....and I find this really unfortunate since I now have nearly 6 figures of steel and coupon about to expire.... but have or had every surface ship except Shiki. 

... might have to bite the bullet and get Gato even though that's the sort of sacrilege that's up there with hocking a lugie in the communion cup.

 

BTW - just so you know... Ragnar is probably the best solo random carry Steel ship.... but other's like Bourgogne are probably more fun.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

12 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

So does every other submarine... I would guess FDR is the best since carrier still out-influences everything.

Not really the same way. Others subs can probably kill a full HP T10 BB in two - four great attacks depending how badly the BB player play, Gato can do it in one launch without even showing himself with a ping. He can sit 2.2 km away from youre hull (which ingame is right up on it) and blast his nukes into you and you never knew he was there. And IF he doesn't kill you with those he just dives under you and give you 4 more from his aft launchers.

Other subs at least has the decency to give you a ping show on the surface that you can have fun with.

[ArIskandir]

5 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

might have to bite the bullet and get Gato even though that's the sort of sacrilege that's up there with hocking a lugie in the communion cup.

Don't be afraid, feel the power of the Dark Side! 

Hate, Salt, Reports, much XP... the path of the Dark Side is!

[BOBTHEBALL]

22 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Dunno what's best. I got a few, getting Stalingrad maybe next though it seems boring.

 

Shikishima is trash, don't buy it. You don't want a six gun battleship when Yamato exists. Secondary memes are just memes, gun sound isn't worth all the steel.

Plymouth is a nice cruiser if you can't decide if you'd want to run smoke or radar on Minotaur. It can be very strong when you get to contest areas with Plymouth abilities, also since Petropavlovsk and other actually useful cruisers have gone extinct, you aren't countered often. If you'd like to do everything and be useful for your team instead of maximum damage numbers, this ship is for you.

Bourgogne is quite strong though disappointing in the way you play it in current meta. It has also been cursed to forever deal 200+k damage and lose every game. 

Ragnar I just hate and I don't know how anybody gets it to work. It's like a worse Elbing with radar instead of smoke and torpedoes. Or a slower, worse Kleber/Khabarovsk. I probably suck in it, but I'm not afraid of it either in anything.

Z-42 also feels much like either a less strong Harugumo or a less practical Daring. Or just in all ways worse than Daring. Get Daring. Ignore Kriegsmarine.

 

Some opinions on the rest :

FDR doesn't seem intresting even for a carrier, and if I decide to grief with flying gocarts I want them to go as fast as possible. 

Mecklenburg looks a lot like a HE spammer with German armor. Why? Who wants this?

Incomparable is another 6 gun battleship and I would guess it's superannuated by St. Vincent. But it's not as butt ugly as Vincent, so maybe. 

Austin at least has something going for it, but I don't care about SAP and I already have Colbert anyway. Another maybe, though I suspect that I would always just prefer other light cruisers instead.

Gato no

Stalingrad is the other cookie cutter choice everybody used to recommend. Hard to see what it offers over UU Petropavlovsk. Seems like 99% of Stalingrads park somewhere and have much fun shooting at sterns of kiting ships to little effect which tells me it lacks something critical. 

Vallejo seems intresting actually. Weaker, less useful Worcester at T9 but with better ballistics. Why yes please, I would like such a thing. I hate american ballistics.

Shikishima isn't trash it's a Yamato sidegrade

Plymouth yeah it's pretty mid but good at denying caps

Bourgogne is really nice but can get shafted by big overmatch and people with brain

Ragnar is great when the speed boost is up otherwise you can get dogged on easily

Z-42 is just a slightly better Z-52, not much of an achievement however

FDR is ok but there are worse and better CV out there

Mecklenburg is eh, I mean just play something else

Incomp is also eh, requires heavily on good mm to be fun

Austin is only good when the MBRB is up otherwise it's trash

Gato is cracked but I mean only people who are bad at the game plays subs

Stalingrad is still amazing and the fact you're comparing it to UU Petro shows me you don't know how to play these Russian cruisers

Vallejo is boring and also dogwater so don't even attempt to make it seem worth it

Fixed it for you

[YouSatInGum]

21 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Vallejo is boring and also dogwater so don't even attempt to make it seem worth it

 

Highly Disagree.

Vallejo has the most dpm of any T9 cruisers while also having the range, turret angles, and ballistics to effectively open water. 

That said.... WG turned a good concept into a sort of meh one when they over nerfed the DPM when all testers div'd them with Black's and dropped a few too many 200k games. 

It's still the best T9 kiting cruiser but that really says more about woeful state of T9 cruiser play.  I will say this.... I has like 85% WR the last 1 v 1 T9 cruiser brawl with Vallejo.... even against Agirs and Alaskas.

21 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Ragnar is great when the speed boost is up otherwise you can get dogged on easily

 

Ragnar is an aiming skill mini-game.   With Elbing accuracy it can land 4 of 4 shells at 15km IF you aim right... double edged sword though... mediocre aim that would usually land a few stray hits mean whiffs in Ragnar.  But if you can... even with no speed boost... even a light cruiser sized DD is hard to hit at 15km.  Add in no citadel and light cruiser HP and ... yeah ... Ragnar is inherently underpowered.

21 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Z-42 is just a slightly better Z-52, not much of an achievement however

 

If you like Ranked....Z42 is a solid ship.  It's biggest downfall is that other DDs like Smaland, Marceau, and Gdansk exist.

[BOBTHEBALL]

6 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Highly Disagree.

Vallejo has the most dpm of any T9 cruisers while also having the range, turret angles, and ballistics to effectively open water. 

That said.... WG turned a good concept into a sort of meh one when they over nerfed the DPM when all testers div'd them with Black's and dropped a few too many 200k games. 

It's still the best T9 kiting cruiser but that really says more about woeful state of T9 cruiser play.  I will say this.... I has like 85% WR the last 1 v 1 T9 cruiser brawl with Vallejo.... even against Agirs and Alaskas.

That is a complete and utter lie, I'd urge you to check your ship stats. Vallejo doesn't ahve the most dpm of any tier 9 cruiser, she has the 6th best AP DPM at 314k and she has the 4th best HE DPM at 216k. On another note if I was forced to play a tier 9 kiting cruiser I'd rather play a Roon, the firepower feels move consistent and easier to apply to all ship types while having that 27mm plating and extra heal for improved survivability. 

On the topic of other tier 9 cruisers they're all not very powerful if I'm being honest. Some are "eh" to play and others are horrible to play so I'd just not play any at all.

[Kruzenstern]

Nothing compares to Incomparable. Definitely the most fun of the bunch (at least for me who only plays PvE and Brawls). Doing pretty well with it in the current asymmetric battles too. It is really not as squishy as it looks when you angle properly, and the combination of high speed and the biggest boomsticks in the game along with plenty of gimmicks gives me tons of fun. Probably not the most effective ship for PvP boredom, but in PvE it really shines.

[GandalfTehGray]

This is the 600th time this has been discussed 😛

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxjF2znAZ-h4Q4l9ffYE5Cq6JJatCOsSQ_?si=1vOlOhqd4sn0GISn

I don't feel that the thoughts have changed much since the beginning either. Stalingrad used to be the go to ship for Ranked/Clan battles players, I just feel that Bourgogne and Incomparable have stronger niches in today's game. 

Bourgogne, and Incomparable are unique, I'd say Stalingrad is still pretty strong. 

 

 

If they start doing more sub required missions Gato would be the pick up for damage missions. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by GandalfTehGray
Extra thoughts

[Sailor_Moon]

On 12/1/2023 at 12:58 PM, BOBTHEBALL said:

Vallejo is boring and also dogwater so don't even attempt to make it seem worth it

Frankly, the ONLY reason I'd pick up Vallejo is....purely aesthetics. I like the design! 😄

What can I say, it's a good-looking cruiser! And the big hull numbers 😍

[Sailor_Moon]

23 hours ago, Kruzenstern said:

Nothing compares to Incomparable.

That's why it's Incomparable!!!

[BOBTHEBALL]

1 hour ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Frankly, the ONLY reason I'd pick up Vallejo is....purely aesthetics. I like the design! 😄

What can I say, it's a good-looking cruiser! And the big hull numbers 😍

Besides looks there's not much going for it lol

[BOBTHEBALL]

On 12/2/2023 at 7:31 PM, Kruzenstern said:

Nothing compares to Incomparable. Definitely the most fun of the bunch (at least for me who only plays PvE and Brawls). Doing pretty well with it in the current asymmetric battles too. It is really not as squishy as it looks when you angle properly, and the combination of high speed and the biggest boomsticks in the game along with plenty of gimmicks gives me tons of fun. Probably not the most effective ship for PvP boredom, but in PvE it really shines.

Eh anything works in PvE and BBs are extremely strong in brawls, not including anything with overmatch and torpedoes. However in random and ranked I'd rather have something else on my team as the BB. It really depends what they want the steel ship for, what mode and such.

[Kruzenstern]

8 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Eh anything works in PvE

I guess you don't really play Operations and asymmetric battles then? Because anything works is very far from the truth. In fact thats even untrue for coop, as for example slow BBs don't work at all in coop. (also not very good in most Operations). And non-large cruisers without smoke have a very hard time in the current asymmetric battles.

[OT2_2]

20 minutes ago, Kruzenstern said:

And non-large cruisers without smoke have a very hard time in the current asymmetric battles.

Even if this were true to some extend, it's also true that some people including me are successfully using CL like the Germans or Russians. Like Nürnberg, Leipzig, Ochakov or the new Pozharsky. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by OT2_2

[WildWind84]

Hi all. For start, I have Burgogne. My next steel ship should be???

FDR - NO

Gato - NO

DDS - just try to learn them, I am not ready (yet) for steel dd. 

Any recomendations? Tnx. 

Have a nice day all 🙂

 

EDIT: When Lauria shoud be awailable for steel? Tnx.

Edited December 4, 2023 by WildWind84

[Kruzenstern]

6 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

Like Nürnberg, Leipzig, Ochakov or the new Pozharsky. 

Okay, those probably work, because those lower tier bots have less range and overmatch potential. I play exclusively tiers 9+ in asymmetric battles (why play lower tiers there when you can play those in normal ops?) and there cruisers without smoke or significant tanking abilities (or torp galore like Brisbane) have a pretty hard time doing reasonable amounts of damage, with enemy BBs shooting you from 'your' spawn and the other spawns as well. And even if you manage to survive and shoot somewhat reliably, the secondary BBs do so much more damage than you do. Schlieffens in asymmetric battles are kinda like Klebers in Coop.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Kruzenstern

[Sailor_Moon]

16 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Besides looks there's not much going for it lol

[Nevermore135]

6 hours ago, Kruzenstern said:

(why play lower tiers there when you can play those in normal ops?)

1) WG’s balance of Ops is pretty hit or miss, to the point that for the most part playing below tier VIII on a random team is an exercise in frustration.

2) I feel that I have a lot more control over the outcome of an Assymetric Battle than I do in a random operation with a random team who may or may play the objective.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Nevermore135

[BOBTHEBALL]

8 hours ago, Kruzenstern said:

I guess you don't really play Operations and asymmetric battles then? Because anything works is very far from the truth. In fact thats even untrue for coop, as for example slow BBs don't work at all in coop. (also not very good in most Operations). And non-large cruisers without smoke have a very hard time in the current asymmetric battles.

Oh don't assume incorrectly please. I've been playing an incredible amount of OPs and Assymmetric battles lately because I don't trust my craptop. Quite sad to see you don't think I actively engage in the mode the majority of this community plays. And on the topic of "non large cruiser" I'd say, just play better my friend. They're bots and can be played around quite easily. It's not rocket science and there are so many predictable things they do. Assymmetric has been fun for all the ships I've been playing.

[BOBTHEBALL]

7 hours ago, WildWind84 said:

Hi all. For start, I have Burgogne. My next steel ship should be???

FDR - NO

Gato - NO

DDS - just try to learn them, I am not ready (yet) for steel dd. 

Any recomendations? Tnx. 

Have a nice day all 🙂

 

EDIT: When Lauria shoud be awailable for steel? Tnx.

Stalingrad, there's no other answer. And Lauria should be soon in update 12.1.

[BOBTHEBALL]

8 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

Even if this were true to some extend, it's also true that some people including me are successfully using CL like the Germans or Russians. Like Nürnberg, Leipzig, Ochakov or the new Pozharsky. 

Yeah it's not exactly hard, you just don't need to be a window licker.

[Kruzenstern]

3 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Oh don't assume incorrectly please. I've been playing an incredible amount of OPs and Assymmetric battles lately because I don't trust my craptop. Quite sad to see you don't think I actively engage in the mode the majority of this community plays. And on the topic of "non large cruiser" I'd say, just play better my friend. They're bots and can be played around quite easily. It's not rocket science and there are so many predictable things they do. Assymmetric has been fun for all the ships I've been playing.

Well my assumption came from your false assessment that any ship can work in PvE. I don't know, I guess you are a super-unicum and this is true for you, and you are so far removed from normal players that you can't see how this might not be true for them . Maybe you can even get top scores in coop every battle in a California like Chuck Norris. But I dare say that I am an above average player myself, and I can't do that. Nor do I see (m)any others doing it.

Just like normal cruisers not performing in high-tier asymmetric battles. I have now done my fair share of asymmetric battles (I guess some 70 or so?), and only once have I seen a non-smoke or large cruiser be in the top 2 in a tier9 or tier10 asymmetric battle, and that was an odd one with oodles of DDs on the bot team. So it is not just me who has a hard time getting good scores with these ships. Whereas it is ridiculously easy in a secondary BB. DDs and subs are a bit hit and miss, they seem to do a lot better when its standard battle and the bots rush the cap from all directions, and worse when it's Domination and the bots stay split up for longer. Large cruisers like Marseille and Napoli work pretty much as well as normal BBs. Smoke cruisers again are somewhat hit and miss, a lot depends on where the bots go after they reached 'their' cap.

Also this only relates to tier9+ asymmetrics, at lower tiers normal cruisers will probably do a lot better as the bot ships below tier7 have much worse range, overmatch and overall gun performance, as well as worse armor and fire resistance that is much weaker against HE spam and AP into the broadside. And there are not so many Schlieffens, Pommerns, Ruprechts etc. that take most of the bot HP for themselves. Though the Massa is very dominating in tier8, but you don't get three of them in many battles.

[BOBTHEBALL]

46 minutes ago, Kruzenstern said:

Well my assumption came from your false assessment that any ship can work in PvE. I don't know, I guess you are a super-unicum and this is true for you, and you are so far removed from normal players that you can't see how this might not be true for them . Maybe you can even get top scores in coop every battle in a California like Chuck Norris. But I dare say that I am an above average player myself, and I can't do that. Nor do I see (m)any others doing it.

Just like normal cruisers not performing in high-tier asymmetric battles. I have now done my fair share of asymmetric battles (I guess some 70 or so?), and only once have I seen a non-smoke or large cruiser be in the top 2 in a tier9 or tier10 asymmetric battle, and that was an odd one with oodles of DDs on the bot team. So it is not just me who has a hard time getting good scores with these ships. Whereas it is ridiculously easy in a secondary BB. DDs and subs are a bit hit and miss, they seem to do a lot better when its standard battle and the bots rush the cap from all directions, and worse when it's Domination and the bots stay split up for longer. Large cruisers like Marseille and Napoli work pretty much as well as normal BBs. Smoke cruisers again are somewhat hit and miss, a lot depends on where the bots go after they reached 'their' cap.

Also this only relates to tier9+ asymmetrics, at lower tiers normal cruisers will probably do a lot better as the bot ships below tier7 have much worse range, overmatch and overall gun performance, as well as worse armor and fire resistance that is much weaker against HE spam and AP into the broadside. And there are not so many Schlieffens, Pommerns, Ruprechts etc. that take most of the bot HP for themselves. Though the Massa is very dominating in tier8, but you don't get three of them in many battles.

Damn that's insane. Yeah Vallejo is still kinda dogwater.  

 

On 12/2/2023 at 5:48 PM, BOBTHEBALL said:

That is a complete and utter lie, I'd urge you to check your ship stats. Vallejo doesn't ahve the most dpm of any tier 9 cruiser, she has the 6th best AP DPM at 314k and she has the 4th best HE DPM at 216k. On another note if I was forced to play a tier 9 kiting cruiser I'd rather play a Roon, the firepower feels move consistent and easier to apply to all ship types while having that 27mm plating and extra heal for improved survivability. 

On the topic of other tier 9 cruisers they're all not very powerful if I'm being honest. Some are "eh" to play and others are horrible to play so I'd just not play any at all.

Still ignoring this I see

😎👍