Andrewbassg Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) The shots landing short have insanely multiplied. As far as I can tell affects more rapid firing guns i.e small caliber ones. And the reticle is jumpin around like no tomorrow Ze hamsters cannot cope with mines me thinks.... Edited August 20, 2023 by Andrewbassg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Efros Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Certainly more prevalent than they used to be and more annoying is the autolock seems to be not so auto anymore and refuses to change ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted August 20, 2023 Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, Efros said: Certainly more prevalent than they used to be and more annoying is the autolock seems to be not so auto anymore and refuses to change ship. Yes. And also the autolock throws off dispersion. If I do it manually the dispersion is noticeably more tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 35 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: The shots landing short have insanely multiplied. As far as I can tell affects more rapid firing guns i.e small caliber ones. And the reticle is jumpin around like no tomorrow Ze hamsters cannot cope with mines me thinks.... There has been "aiming bugs" for quite a while. Ever have two enemy ships next to each other en echelon and you simply can not hit the furthest away ship no matter how high you aim over that ship? Ever had a dead zone on maps where no matter how high over a distant ship you aim, your rounds simply won't get close? Or, the "reticle jiggle" where your reticle simply has Parkinson's disease when you need citadels or close out kill shots. How about the "reticle dance" with ships at long range - where the second your reticle aiming point touches that far away ship, that ship waits two seconds and immediately turns...... Yes, the game computer "know where you are aiming....." and anticipates where you aim will land shells the nano-seconde your LMB activates and.........the enemy ship turns OR hits the "STOP NOW" button and has the inertial compensators at MAX to keep the crew of that BOT from being smashed into paste.... Ever seen a major BB simply stop and your shells go flying ahead of it??? 98,000 tons simply stops in 100 meters...... It's been reported dozens of time with replays sent. Nothing. If I were to guess or speculate, they can't afford to fix it because it is designed for us to "lose value" every match. Want to test it? Simply launch torpedoes without using the "aim assist" tool..... BTW, I am guessing here, but everytime you read about a ships "art improvement", I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut what they really did was change the "hit box geometry..." to make damage easier.... Ever track the count down timers? Ever wonder how that "one torpedo" always seems to hit you? Ever see the infamous "Island Torpedo?" We have a clan mate whom simply has the most "Island Torpedo" hits of anyone in this game..... No joke.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I'm guessing 'Bots can use skills, too. Quote Priority Target 2 The detection indicator displays the number of opponents that are currently aiming at your ship. The detection indicator will show the number of enemies targeting you with main battery. Used skillfully, can detect the launch of a torpedo salvo at you (the number will temporarily decrease by one). Quote Incoming Fire Alert 1 Provides a warning of long-range main battery fire. Receive a warning of a salvo fired at your ship from a distance of more than 4.5 km. Think of this as a "turn now!" warning. https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:List_of_Commander_Skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yedwy Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I'm guessing 'Bots can use skills, too. https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:List_of_Commander_Skills Riight... Like the jedi torpedo sense for instance... On topic - I didnt notice any change TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Yedwy said: Riight... Like the jedi torpedo sense for instance... Don't need to be a Jedi to observe positions of ships and know whether or not they're equipped with torpedoes. If a ship can fire upon me, then I plan accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin_Simpleton Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Andrewbassg said: The shots landing short have insanely multiplied. Yes, shots are landing short. Seems to happen most when my team is losing a blowout as if the shots are gimped on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogHammer Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 And I always thought it was just my poor aim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I'm guessing 'Bots can use skills, too. https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:List_of_Commander_Skills In the asymmetric battles, it was pretty obvious that the bots knew where the shells were going to land the moment they were fired...and dodged accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I'm guessing 'Bots can use skills, too. https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:List_of_Commander_Skills I don't think bots use skills. I think they 'know' where all units and ordinance are at all times, and there are rules which govern their behavior. I've always had the impression that there is a sort of die-roll table that governs who they aggro, who they angle against, and what they decide to dodge (if a dodge is possible). They must 'obey' rules such as detection and hard ship stats, which is why smoke and torpedo jousting is so effective against Co-op AI. But you will notice that bot carriers still 'know' exactly where to send a squadron on whatever unit it has aggroed, even if it's not 'allowed' to fire on it. The advanced AI seen in Asymmetric and Concealed makes use of consumables more routinely, as well as a different attack pattern, but even that gives the impression they know where you are, just based off how they use those routines in my experience against them. Additionally, I think dispersion and pen chances where affected with a modifier of some kind to increase the difficulty for guns in Asymmetric. They also seemed to 'derp' into long ranged torpedoes more often than in Co-op, possibly in a bid to have emphasis on both guns and torpedoes. This is of course all theory crafting based on my observation of the AIs in my years playing against them, so take that for what you will. More to the point, my aim does feel a bit worse this patch. It's possible they mucked something besides the sound design up, but then again, my aim is kinda terrible. Edited August 20, 2023 by SolitudeFreak grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 29 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: I don't think bots use skills. They use "programming". The point is, what they do can be done by human players. Though it may seem to be done differently. Without access to the A.I. Programming, and the expertise to interpret the code, we're merely able to observe 'Bot behaviors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hocus4957 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Here is War Gaming's response to all of this "complaining" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: They use "programming". The point is, what they do can be done by human players. Though it may seem to be done differently. Without access to the A.I. Programming, and the expertise to interpret the code, we're merely able to observe 'Bot behaviors. I don't think this assumption holds true. Humans can't dodge unseen torpedoes the exact moment they were fired...behavior seen in asymmetrical battles. Humans don't know EXACTLY where each shell will land, while the bits certainly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: I don't think this assumption holds true. Humans can't dodge unseen torpedoes the exact moment they were fired...behavior seen in asymmetrical battles. Humans don't know EXACTLY where each shell will land, while the bits certainly did. Humans can use observable positions of ships and human intuition to interpret what they see with the benefit of experience. Eventually, making great plays becomes second nature, the same way that people who do any job long enough make that job look easy. Point is everyone can learn to get better, even if they don't become the WOWs equivalent of pro-sports all-star players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Humans can use observable positions of ships and human intuition to interpret what they see with the benefit of experience. Eventually, making great plays becomes second nature, the same way that people who do any job long enough make that job look easy. Point is everyone can learn to get better, even if they don't become the WOWs equivalent of pro-sports all-star players. Yep. And my point is that the bots demonstrate activity that demonstrates they clearly have more information than a player does. This isn't really a problem...as otherwise the bots would be even easier to defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Asym said: There has been "aiming bugs" for quite a while. Ever have two enemy ships next to each other en echelon and you simply can not hit the furthest away ship no matter how high you aim over that ship? Ever had a dead zone on maps where no matter how high over a distant ship you aim, your rounds simply won't get close? Or, the "reticle jiggle" where your reticle simply has Parkinson's disease when you need citadels or close out kill shots. How about the "reticle dance" with ships at long range - where the second your reticle aiming point touches that far away ship, that ship waits two seconds and immediately turns...... Yes, the game computer "know where you are aiming....." and anticipates where you aim will land shells the nano-seconde your LMB activates and.........the enemy ship turns OR hits the "STOP NOW" button and has the inertial compensators at MAX to keep the crew of that BOT from being smashed into paste.... Ever seen a major BB simply stop and your shells go flying ahead of it??? 98,000 tons simply stops in 100 meters...... It's been reported dozens of time with replays sent. Nothing. If I were to guess or speculate, they can't afford to fix it because it is designed for us to "lose value" every match. Want to test it? Simply launch torpedoes without using the "aim assist" tool..... BTW, I am guessing here, but everytime you read about a ships "art improvement", I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut what they really did was change the "hit box geometry..." to make damage easier.... Ever track the count down timers? Ever wonder how that "one torpedo" always seems to hit you? Ever see the infamous "Island Torpedo?" We have a clan mate whom simply has the most "Island Torpedo" hits of anyone in this game..... No joke.... Yeah I know... All of 'em. I meant this patch is a LOT worse. Btw... 11 hours ago, Asym said: Ever have two enemy ships next to each other en echelon and you simply can not hit the furthest away ship no matter how high you aim over that ship? This one has been tested out, explained, documented and proven. TLDR if the (aiming) line gets over another ship or terrain, the autoaiming gets confused and cannot cope EVEN if the target is locked on Edited August 21, 2023 by Andrewbassg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 10 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I'm guessing 'Bots can use skills, too. 8 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: They use "programming". The point is, what they do can be done by human players. Though it may seem to be done differently. Without access to the A.I. Programming, and the expertise to interpret the code, we're merely able to observe 'Bot behaviors. Not exactly. The bots are connected to the server and the server always knows everything. its just a matter of dumbing down the bots ( i.e imposing differing conditions on the bots reactions). That's WarGambling famous AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: Yeah I know... All of 'em. I meant this patch is a LOT worse. Btw... This one has been tested out, explained, documented and proven. TLDR if the (aiming) line gets over another ship or terrain, the autoaiming gets confused and cannot cope EVEN if the target is locked on So, how about hitting the "X" key and unlocking from the target and using the mini-map impact indicator to aim in a more 'manual' manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: Not exactly. The bots are connected to the server and the server always knows everything. Which was covered as a concept when I mentioned "programming". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 51 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: So, how about hitting the "X" key and unlocking from the target and using the mini-map impact indicator to aim in a more 'manual' manner? Yes, but also no 🙂. in wows dispersion is regulated by lock on. Especially vertical one. 53 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Which was covered as a concept when I mentioned "programming". Yes Wolfie. I was merely specific 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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