If subs are so disliked?

[Yedwy]

10 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

On this subject, I have already said my piece many times.  As evidenced by the poster I quoted, I see little point in continuing a line of discussion that isn't open to discussion.

Pure megha skill this, it was soo hard... NOT

[Jakob Knight]

4 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Pure megha skill this, it was soo hard... NOT

 

Again, I am not going to be drawn into a discussion where the points of discussion are not up for discussion.  However, that's alot of torpedo hits for only one kill.  A Results screenshot does not describe the nature of the battle, only the outcome.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Jakob Knight

[pepe_trueno]

22 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I see your agenda here. No. 

 

 

what agenda? its a very simple thing to do to prove if a ship type is hated by a large part of the community or not.

 

for the record my vote goes for CV, as annoying as a sub can be one can at least avoid them by simply checking where your sub spawns and go to the opposite side.

[YouSatInGum]

Let me bring a up a point for those that like subs in randoms... and CV's to some extent.

 

Those that think subs in their current state are just fine for randoms need to understand that Randoms are already a significant downgrade compared to times past.  The issue is the players that you are playing against... or rather not playing against (or with).

For example I hardly ever play random anymore and if I do it's with a 3 person div from clan and then chances are that the deck is stacked in our favor since now you have 3 typhoon players in div on one side.  I'm not trying to say I'm unicum but I will say I'm above average.... but if you want me either on your team or the challenge of playing against me...then you'll find me in sub-less environment like T9 ranked, CB, or the upcoming T7 ranked.

...and maybe you think that's just fine....OK then.  But you should know that randoms used to be different.  I've been one that pays close attention to the player monitor and even takes data from time to time to find trends....and one trend I've noticed in the hallowing out of the playerbase's skill.  The 49% to 51% players that used to be pretty common are shadow of their former population.  What's left is a lot of inexperienced sub 48% players and a few 53% players that know how to carry.  But often that sprinkling of good players is uneven so we end up with one of the causes of steamroll games.  On weekends it's probably on purpose as good clans div together.

So let me sum up... it's not the sole cause but submarines have definitely contributed to the decline in the quality random games where you play through a lot more stinkers before you finally get lucky enough for competitive game that tests your carrying skills.

[Pugilistic]

22 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Let me bring a up a point for those that like subs in randoms... and CV's to some extent.

 

Those that think subs in their current state are just fine for randoms need to understand that Randoms are already a significant downgrade compared to times past.  The issue is the players that you are playing against... or rather not playing against (or with).

For example I hardly ever play random anymore and if I do it's with a 3 person div from clan and then chances are that the deck is stacked in our favor since now you have 3 typhoon players in div on one side.  I'm not trying to say I'm unicum but I will say I'm above average.... but if you want me either on your team or the challenge of playing against me...then you'll find me in sub-less environment like T9 ranked, CB, or the upcoming T7 ranked.

...and maybe you think that's just fine....OK then.  But you should know that randoms used to be different.  I've been one that pays close attention to the player monitor and even takes data from time to time to find trends....and one trend I've noticed in the hallowing out of the playerbase's skill.  The 49% to 51% players that used to be pretty common are shadow of their former population.  What's left is a lot of inexperienced sub 48% players and a few 53% players that know how to carry.  But often that sprinkling of good players is uneven so we end up with one of the causes of steamroll games.  On weekends it's probably on purpose as good clans div together.

So let me sum up... it's not the sole cause but submarines have definitely contributed to the decline in the quality random games where you play through a lot more stinkers before you finally get lucky enough for competitive game that tests your carrying skills.

Thats a bingo. 

Equally worrisome for the future of the game, the occasional foray into low tiers shows a high proportion of unicum clubbers or even clubber divisions. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

Just now, YouSatInGum said:

Let me bring a up a point for those that like subs in randoms... and CV's to some extent.

 

Those that think subs in their current state are just fine for randoms need to understand that Randoms are already a significant downgrade compared to times past.  The issue is the players that you are playing against... or rather not playing against (or with).

For example I hardly ever play random anymore and if I do it's with a 3 person div from clan and then chances are that the deck is stacked in our favor since now you have 3 typhoon players in div on one side.  I'm not trying to say I'm unicum but I will say I'm above average.... but if you want me either on your team or the challenge of playing against me...then you'll find me in sub-less environment like T9 ranked, CB, or the upcoming T7 ranked.

...and maybe you think that's just fine....OK then.  But you should know that randoms used to be different.  I've been one that pays close attention to the player monitor and even takes data from time to time to find trends....and one trend I've noticed in the hallowing out of the playerbase's skill.  The 49% to 51% players that used to be pretty common are shadow of their former population.  What's left is a lot of inexperienced sub 48% players and a few 53% players that know how to carry.  But often that sprinkling of good players is uneven so we end up with one of the causes of steamroll games.  On weekends it's probably on purpose as good clans div together.

So let me sum up... it's not the sole cause but submarines have definitely contributed to the decline in the quality random games where you play through a lot more stinkers before you finally get lucky enough for competitive game that tests your carrying skills.

For years, and even nowadays, there have been some players who assert that random battles are the best test of one's mettle and that co-op is "easy" and etc. & etc. of similar sentiments expressing denigration for any mode that isn't player-versus-player because it isn't "mano-a-mano" enough.
Or, whatever.

Thankfully, it is just some players who look down their snooty noses upon others, eh?  🙂 

My point?

The very mode touted (by some) as being the most challenging and difficult is also the same mode that some players are crying "foul" about because of the extra difficulty when CV's and Submarines are added to the team rosters.

So, I ask, "What the F<bleep>!?!?" 
(Not to you personally, @YouSatInGum, but in general and rhetorically.)

Why are those who are touting the awesomeness of random battles as being the ultimate manly-man way of life suddenly changing their tune when it becomes more "manly man" in terms of difficulty, eh?  🙂 

Again, it's a general and rhetorical question, because the answer varies from person to person.

But, more seriously, in this arcade game full of consumables being the equivalent of "magical power-ups" and other things found in other games, and, "balanz" being an unpublished formula somewhere in WG's/WOWs' internal documentation, I wonder how exactly is the claim of being a simulation, for this time-compressed and distance-compressed game, getting supported?  🙂 

Something, somewhere had to "give", in my opinion.

Simulations are time consuming and take longer than the 20 minute format currently in use.
Simulations more properly model all of the "reality", such as the hulls, the ordnance, the sea conditions, the equipment, the damage control and repair capabilities, the logistics and other phenomena to the smallest details.
Simulations would take place on larger maps and wouldn't have invisible boundaries.
Simulations, in short, might be *boring* (at least for some people).
Simulations might also take hours (or more) to gather 24 people willing to play them to the finish in-real-time.

Do some people seriously want that in a player-versus-player format?
Do some people seriously think that WG/WOWs will consider it to be appealing enough to be profitable?

Sorry, @YouSatInGum, it seems you unintentionally tapped a well-spring within me.  🙂 
 

[ArIskandir]

3 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Those that think subs in their current state are just fine for randoms need to understand that Randoms are already a significant downgrade compared to times past.

The point you make is clear, but what is the alternative?

How do you keep developing the game within its current monetization structure?

How do you keep gameplay "fresh" for your veteran players?

A "game as service" is chained to keep adding "fresh" content... it is kinda unavoidable to keep increasing the overall complexity of the environment, with the corresponding increase in knowledge disparity between veterans and new guys. That's a big problem for new players entering any long term established PvP environment, the guys you are gonna face have years of experience and "material" advantage over you (as a new player). 

Any alternative needs to change first the core monetization structure of the game, which of course is the hardest thing to do as THAT is the game. Games at their core are vehicles for monetization through entertainment, changing the way they are monetized means changing the foundation of how the game works... is not that simple as "don't add Subs or CVs"... what else are they going to add? because something needs to be added, that's unavoidable. 

[AkiraKurai]

15 hours ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

A sub going perpendicular to their ping location and switching up their direction is not going to take any meaningful damage unless there are 3 or more ships depth charging them, in which case there will simply be a greater saturation over an area. The sub controls how many people are depth charging them, because they control the engagement.

And rarely would you see a sub engage a 3 or more ship group because there isn't any meaningful way to actually do damage to the 3 boats besides throwing homing torps and praying that all 3 of them don't immediately throw DC planes, or wait untill 1 or 2 of them die then shot gun, at which one, that last ship was going to die either way. You're saying subs control the engagement but you can say this to any ship with better conceal values, such as a DD who doesn't want to open fire but can throw torps and perma spot what's around them for the team to shoot.

15 hours ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

Subs have French DD saturation. They have 2 sections which makes them not only resistant to artillery fire, but from torps from other subs during sub vs. sub engagement, since they tend to home onto one section. That's why subs surviving on a sliver of health to nuke you later in the game after eating 3 torps from your own sub is a very common occurence.

I wan't to know where the idea of subs having French DD saturation came from, The reason people feel like they have said saturation, which I already mentioned in my original post and you never bothered to debate it, is due to the fact that DC and shells do not show if they took splash or direct hits since the damage from splash vs direct hits is about 10% for AP and 16.5% for HE/SAP. DC splash is just 33% of the stated DC damage but I may be wrong on that one. As you can see, these values are extremes compared to what you would expect from a direct hit.

15 hours ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

Subs can also go underwater, where they can only be spotted through normal ship's assured detection if they have hydro, and even here subs have a spotting advantage in like 70% through sonar, because not every ship has hydro and ships that have it may be on CD. They absolutely fucking have game leading conceal lol

And again, if you where to cut sonar out, you would see that gimmick of popping up and down is useless since they are unable to spot DDs reliably to setup a shotgun, something that if you read my post to complete, I stated was poorly implemented with how broken sonar is.

15 hours ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

I don't even need to begin to talk about ship like Mino/Plymouth/Hinden/Ven who have literally 0 counterplay oppurtunity against sub with braincells, because unless you are fighting crap like Thrasher, then you don't even have a copium 1-4kn speed advantage over the sub, because the sub straight outruns you while you can't even respond with depth charges

One of the counter measures that I would say weegee poorly implemented, ironic how the best sub killers are BBs instead of DDs or CAs

Edited November 8, 2023 by AkiraKurai

[Wolfswetpaws]

13 minutes ago, AkiraKurai said:

I wan't to know where the idea of subs having French DD saturation came from,

I'd like to know, too.  🙂 

I participated in Submarine introduction (Halloween event) and all subsequent Submarine Testing phases and the discussions on the old forum (NA Server).
I don't remember anyone suggesting that Submarines be provided with French DD saturation characteristics.

So, I'm guessing that somewhere in the Developer's offices the idea was floated and approved, somehow?

[AkiraKurai]

14 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

So, I'm guessing that somewhere in the Developer's offices the idea was floated and approved, somehow?

Probably not, it's kind of hard to judge it emperically due to shell hits/splashes not being separated even though the damage of the two vary widely but if you do play sub for a bit you do notice the damage to be rather constant when it comes to shell/DC/torp hits to your hull, there may be some footage from Flamu testing it if you don't have anyone to test it with but I find his way to testing to be extremly inconsistent since there are sections where he decides to go for the every sections and some where he only focuses on the center/bow/etc... but the one with the surfaced sub gives the best clarity on direct hits and from his and my testing in training I find that they don't have that french saturation, but that doesn't change his mind to only think "subs broken, have french saturation, look how many shells on periscoped sub" when in reality I bet half of those shells where counted as splash damage instead of direct hits.

[Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami]

7 hours ago, AkiraKurai said:

And rarely would you see a sub engage a 3 or more ship group because there isn't any meaningful way to actually do damage to the 3 boats besides throwing homing torps and praying that all 3 of them don't immediately throw DC planes, or wait untill 1 or 2 of them die then shot gun, at which one, that last ship was going to die either way. You're saying subs control the engagement but you can say this to any ship with better conceal values, such as a DD who doesn't want to open fire but can throw torps and perma spot what's around them for the team to shoot.

I wan't to know where the idea of subs having French DD saturation came from, The reason people feel like they have said saturation, which I already mentioned in my original post and you never bothered to debate it, is due to the fact that DC and shells do not show if they took splash or direct hits since the damage from splash vs direct hits is about 10% for AP and 16.5% for HE/SAP. DC splash is just 33% of the stated DC damage but I may be wrong on that one. As you can see, these values are extremes compared to what you would expect from a direct hit.

And again, if you where to cut sonar out, you would see that gimmick of popping up and down is useless since they are unable to spot DDs reliably to setup a shotgun, something that if you read my post to complete, I stated was poorly implemented with how broken sonar is.

One of the counter measures that I would say weegee poorly implemented, ironic how the best sub killers are BBs instead of DDs or CAs

1) Why would sub not control the engagement? They have great base conceal which as I said before can be artificially reduced to go dark immediately, have immunity to radar and make any ship that wants to push it know they have to pay a significant price. Strategically, this means that as long as the sub is not Thrasher and has even a basic decent speed,a good sub against anything other than an overwhelming force will be force others to constantly lose ground, and the sub has the choice to choose to engage or not or rotate for better targets or to escape. You greatly overestimate the capacity of flight ASW, even from 3 ships, to actually effectively do meaningful damage to any sub that has a brain, because as long you aren't bow in or reversing, it is hard to predict the subs location in the next 10s unless you have sub surveillance

Not every game is going to be with full divmate where you can dick on trash randoms sub, as soon as you see the stream of player who do shit like average 120k over 300 games of Balao, you realise how utterly useless and little counterplay opportunity flight ASW has- changing direction, manipulating ships with poor ASW ranges, etc can completely ruin the game experience of even top players

2) SS have French DD saturation because they have 2 saturation sections, unless I am mistaken

My old point still stand, this is so beneficial for them in SS vs SS engagement

Is this gamebreaking by itself? No Lol

Is it necessary for sub? No Lol

3) I have no idea absolutely what sort of trashlord sub player you face to think that "popping up and down" is useless, aside from the fact that subs get a window where they can spot DDs within their air conceal and not be spotted in return is already ridiculous, cuz it let them line up perfect angle, correct any course mistakes, etc to shotgun DD

This isn't even talking about the interaction periscope spotting has with ships that aren't DDs, where subs get 3km or something more free spotting windows where they are invulnerable to radar. We don't even need talk about how this play for BB like Incomp which have some dogcrap 10km air spotting, sub has such a critical spotting advantage its nuts. DD in no way has this, the closest is Paolo smoke inting into assured detection of an enemy ship, and that is obviously so much more inferior than periscope spotting

DDs in no way are better at sub than this. DD get zone out by other ships other than other DDs, the only real counter to a goof sub is another sub or a CV that has to throw the game to go permafuck 1 ship

Edited November 9, 2023 by Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami

[AkiraKurai]

5 minutes ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

Why would sub not control the engagement? They have great base conceal which as I said before can be artificially reduced to go dark immediately, have immunity to radar and make any ship that wants to push it know they have to pay a significant price.

so, just like pushing into a shima or any other DD at that?

6 minutes ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

You greatly overestimate the capacity of flight ASW, even from 3 ships, to actually effectively do meaningful damage to any sub that has a brain, because as long you aren't bow in or reversing, it is hard to predict the subs location in the next 10s unless you have sub surveillance

That's why you spread your strikes, stop stacking them thinking the sub will go only 1 way and attempt to land 2 DC hits, unless the subs dumb enough to announce the direction he's going from constant pinging.

8 minutes ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

as soon as you see the stream of player who do shit like average 120k over 300 games of Balao, you realise how utterly useless and little counterplay opportunity flight ASW has- changing direction, manipulating ships with poor ASW ranges, etc can completely ruin the game experience of even top players

So, just like how some streamers can consistently rack the same damage numbers over said 300 games? I fail to see how this is of any difference

18 minutes ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

2) SS have French DD saturation because they have 2 saturation sections, unless I am mistaken

My old point still stand, this is so beneficial for them in SS vs SS engagement

You misunderstand what "French DD saturation" heck, even what exactly saturation is. French DD saturation is regarding to the fact that regular DDs have a extremly large casemate (center of the ship) HP pool making it near impossible to saturate. French DDs do not have this, infact, their casemate HP is near 0, relying solely on hull HP for the center section where the casemate is which also does not add up to the total HP of the ship itself, leading to "French DD saturation". Sub do not have this and have the same extremly large casemate HP as a standard DD.

23 minutes ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

I have absolutely what sort of trashlord sub player you face to think that "popping up and down" is useless, aside from the fact that subs get a window where they can spot DDs within their air conceal and not be spotted in return is ridiculous, cuz it let them line up perfect angle, correct any course mistakes, etc to shotgun DD

That's not even how it works, a DDs air conceal doesn't magically just pop up to 5.9 km unless they're shooting their AA guns and said AA guns can even reach that range. On average DDs have about 3 km air detect. The standard sub detect parascoped is 2.2 km. it's impossible for the sub to "perfect angle" onto the DD without sonar to aid in then angling thanks to how much speed they bleed, I bet majority of the cases you're seeing are DDs that are blindly charging at the sub head on.

26 minutes ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

This isn't even talking about the interaction periscope spotting has with ships that aren't DDs, where subs get 3km or something more free spotting windows where they are invulnerable to radar.

So basically a DD that is hovering outside of the radar range? If they're periscoped and somehow spotting you even better cause that means they're usually within hydro range, and at that point, it's a dead sub.

28 minutes ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

DDs in no way are better at sub than this. DD get zone out by other ships other than other DDs, the only real counter to a goof sub is another sub or a CV that has to throw the game to go permafuck 1 ship

Subs get zoned out by hydro, litterally flip the consumable on and watch as the sub just twiddles their thumbs.
CV's just have to throw a fighter ontop of them and they cry, still the most broken class in the game.

[Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami]

53 minutes ago, AkiraKurai said:

so, just like pushing into a shima or any other DD at that?

How is that even the same? Sub can instantly negate 85% of armament type damage going underwater, immune to radar and still has enough alpha to nuke BB on 2/3 HP, how are they the same thing? Can I play Plymouth/Moskva/DM and int into a U-2501 so I don't have to be stuck permakiting the whole game? DD and SS are not the same just because both shit torps

53 minutes ago, AkiraKurai said:

That's why you spread your strikes, stop stacking them thinking the sub will go only 1 way and attempt to land 2 DC hits, unless the subs dumb enough to announce the direction he's going from constant pinging.

1) Subs like Gato/Balao and U2501 completely avoid this half the time, unless you are retarded enough to main homing 75% of the time

2) No one stacks ASW to begin with lol, that doesn't solve the problem you have 3 charges max, how many directions can you cover? Good sub is going flit between your max ASW range by the time they final ping to twice ping ur sector after ur DCP, and even then you get 1 splash damage hit when they don't sail the way you expect to. What if the sub also isn't moron and only ping when torps are 3km from you? This flight ASW trick only works against crap players, and is about as consistent as blindfiring smoked up CL that isn't stupid

53 minutes ago, AkiraKurai said:

You misunderstand what "French DD saturation" heck, even what exactly saturation is. French DD saturation is regarding to the fact that regular DDs have a extremly large casemate (center of the ship) HP pool making it near impossible to saturate. French DDs do not have this, infact, their casemate HP is near 0, relying solely on hull HP for the center section where the casemate is which also does not add up to the total HP of the ship itself, leading to "French DD saturation". Sub do not have this and have the same extremly large casemate HP as a standard DD.

I admit I am mistaken here, but my point that two saturation sections of the hull still applies to give great advantage in sub vs sub engagement which allows even clown sub players to survive when they really shouldn't, which you have failed to address 3 times.

53 minutes ago, AkiraKurai said:

That's not even how it works, a DDs air conceal doesn't magically just pop up to 5.9 km unless they're shooting their AA guns and said AA guns can even reach that range. On average DDs have about 3 km air detect. The standard sub detect parascoped is 2.2 km. it's impossible for the sub to "perfect angle" onto the DD without sonar to aid in then angling thanks to how much speed they bleed, I bet majority of the cases you're seeing are DDs that are blindly charging at the sub head on.

You completely miss the point. It's the idea that subs can even outspot DDs at all is the problem, because it gives DD no indication about them being shotgunned aside from being aware of a sub being on the flank because of their team's own sub spawn. Being able to have even a small zone, even .4km is enough for a sub to perfect angle to a DD even without sonar when the sub cuts to 1/4 speed to maximise the time it spends in this spotting/while not spotted zone. Here the DD has 2 options:

1) Int and pray the sub is retarded so you survive the shotgun

2) Run and lose ground and lose strategic position/ground

3) Hope your inconsistent randoms is going to have all guns trained and ASW a target that has literally never been spotted the entire game

On the contrary, again I have no idea what trashlord sub player you face in random, not even mentioning cringe SS/CV/DD div which performs this better, that just magically dies when he goes to periscope depth and gets killed by the DD instantly every game. I haven't even mentioned the SS trick of constantly shifting your diving plane between the periscope-30m depths to gain surface vision and periscope vision while gaining damage immunity that you gain from going underwater. This is not something that avg sub player is going to do, but I've seen plenty of people do this

You haven't even bothered mentioning about the periscope spotting interaction with other ships other than DD, because it is far more hilariously broken

I have over 200 Plymouth solo games post Malta, and if you want me to believe that sub periscope depth is just some overrated gimmick that my DD that I support the whole game can easily counter, ur gonna have to try harder

53 minutes ago, AkiraKurai said:

Subs get zoned out by hydro, litterally flip the consumable on and watch as the sub just twiddles their thumbs.
CV's just have to throw a fighter ontop of them and they cry, still the most broken class in the game.

Twiddle their thumbs how? Are subs just gonna int into you and stay 5km from you the whole game like an idiot? They can rotate to another area, they can go to 30m and get to a better position even in your hydro and stay silent until its over (sub detection skill), they can even pop up when you are distracted with something else like a CV strike to use a 5-6s window (or 3-4s for USN sub with diving plane consumable) to nuke you, etc. If the CV drops fighter, the sub can just move out. I guess since you are NA, no one ASW the fighter, but as long as the sub isn't a moron and ints so far he is 10km from the closest cruiser, then that fighter isn't even going to last long when 4 ASW is dumped onto it 2s after its dropped down

Edited November 9, 2023 by Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami

[Aethervox]

You guys talking about 'Flubs'? Isn't that what they should really be called by us since Wedgie won't 😁

.

 

[Pugilistic]

15 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Let me bring a up a point for those that like subs in randoms... and CV's to some extent.

 

Those that think subs in their current state are just fine for randoms need to understand that Randoms are already a significant downgrade compared to times past.  The issue is the players that you are playing against... or rather not playing against (or with).

For example I hardly ever play random anymore and if I do it's with a 3 person div from clan and then chances are that the deck is stacked in our favor since now you have 3 typhoon players in div on one side.  I'm not trying to say I'm unicum but I will say I'm above average.... but if you want me either on your team or the challenge of playing against me...then you'll find me in sub-less environment like T9 ranked, CB, or the upcoming T7 ranked.

...and maybe you think that's just fine....OK then.  But you should know that randoms used to be different.  I've been one that pays close attention to the player monitor and even takes data from time to time to find trends....and one trend I've noticed in the hallowing out of the playerbase's skill.  The 49% to 51% players that used to be pretty common are shadow of their former population.  What's left is a lot of inexperienced sub 48% players and a few 53% players that know how to carry.  But often that sprinkling of good players is uneven so we end up with one of the causes of steamroll games.  On weekends it's probably on purpose as good clans div together.

So let me sum up... it's not the sole cause but submarines have definitely contributed to the decline in the quality random games where you play through a lot more stinkers before you finally get lucky enough for competitive game that tests your carrying skills.

An example; there was a 10% difference in team winrate here:

[Yedwy]

18 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

Again, I am not going to be drawn into a discussion where the points of discussion are not up for discussion.  However, that's alot of torpedo hits for only one kill.  A Results screenshot does not describe the nature of the battle, only the outcome.

Nature of the battle was I griefed the sh*t out of the red ships that had no real option of counterplay other then blind dropping DC planes and hope they land a hit

[Unlooky]

On 11/6/2023 at 2:28 PM, ole_seabee said:

Then why are so many in the q and wanted to be played? CV suck much more and there are more bbs in each game then evrer met in WW2!

 

 

Is this a troll post

[Frostbow]

Ships are neutral.

What I like or dislike is the performance of the player helming it.

[Gillhunter]

23 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

Ships are neutral.

What I like or dislike is the performance of the player helming it.

The ships they sail say something about the player.

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Gillhunter said:

2 hours ago, Frostbow said:

Ships are neutral.

What I like or dislike is the performance of the player helming it.

The ships they sail say something about the player.

I play all ship types.
What exactly are you trying to assert, @Gillhunter ?  🙂 

[Gillhunter]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I play all ship types.
What exactly are you trying to assert, @Gillhunter ?  🙂 

Well Wolf, that's for you to figure out. 🙂

 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:59 AM, Yedwy said:

Pure megha skill this, it was soo hard... NOT

 

Can't wait to get my U-4501 in 25 days with new coupon! Guessing it will become my new Go-To ship to play during the week.

[Jakob Knight]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

 

Can't wait to get my U-4501 in 25 days with new coupon! Guessing it will become my new Go-To ship to play during the week.

 

Just be sure it's the ship you want.  It has some unique qualities (side rear firing torps and quick underwater speeds, good concealment) but also some downsides (slow surface/periscope speeds, low hull points, can't use standard torpedoes).  Personally, I consider the 2501 the better Sub, but I can see aspects of the 4501 I might decide to explore in the future.

 

As always, make sure you won't have buyers remorse before you click that buy button.

 

 

[ArIskandir]

15 hours ago, Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami said:

You completely miss the point. It's the idea that subs can even outspot DDs at all is the problem, because it gives DD no indication about them being shotgunned aside from being aware of a sub being on the flank because of their team's own sub spawn. Being able to have even a small zone, even .4km is enough for a sub to perfect angle to a DD even without sonar when the sub cuts to 1/4 speed to maximise the time it spends in this spotting/while not spotted zone. Here the DD has 2 options:

1) Int and pray the sub is retarded so you survive the shotgun

2) Run and lose ground and lose strategic position/ground

3) Hope your inconsistent randoms is going to have all guns trained and ASW a target that has literally never been spotted the entire game

I was a bit reluctant to get drawn into this conversation, but I see you could use some education on the matter...

There's this skill called RPF (very useful for DDs btw), it provides you the bearing of Subs even at periscope depth. When coupled with some basic knowledge about Concealment ranges and vision control, it basically allows your DD to pinpoint the location of a nearby Submarine, making you shotgun-proof. I can tell you with a straight face I've never been shotgunned by a Sub while piloting DDs, good or bad opponent doesn't matter because it is up to you to present yourself as a target or not. 

In short, the small window of spotting differential is not relevant (unless a DD with full gunboat build, but that's a different playstyle and hunting Subs is not your jam) because you also know the bearing of the Sub and you can take the required actions to avoid a shotgun attack. 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by ArIskandir

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

47 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

Just be sure it's the ship you want.  It has some unique qualities (side rear firing torps and quick underwater speeds, good concealment) but also some downsides (slow surface/periscope speeds, low hull points, can't use standard torpedoes).  Personally, I consider the 2501 the better Sub, but I can see aspects of the 4501 I might decide to explore in the future.

 

As always, make sure you won't have buyers remorse before you click that buy button.

 

 

Dont think buyers remorse applies to Subs .... WG fixed that!