Last Voyage of the Transylvania

[MarcusYL]

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Nice ad-hominin by the way. I have decades of working in business and believe me, have dealt with far worse people. So ordering me to "touch grass" is unnecessary. 

Eh...if you have dealt with far worse people then I think Bob's humour and sarcasm shouldn't be a problem with you. And I think you are trying to say ad-hominem? I mean..you are doing that against Bob too, I presume? Some guy say Bob's agreement with shooting guns and torps when the match ends is not surprising, and you claimed Bob is extremely snarky and sarcastic in his responses to support his argument? But well, you do you I guess.

Nonetheless, I apologise for misinterpreting your message but tbh I was responding to the post as whole and I didn't quote correctly.

Edited October 31, 2023 by MarcusYL

[Unlooky]

On 10/29/2023 at 5:40 AM, Kruzenstern said:

 

So it is really your idea of suitable PvP play when BBs:

- sit back and snipe from the map border because they can due to their range, but hit very little

- let their DDs and cruisers die doing the tanking they should be doing in their well armored ship

- then do some reasonable amounts of damage when careless enemies rush the remains of their team in a desperate hunt for damage

- thus end up in the top half of the scoring screen and thing they did everything right

 

To me, that is just bad tactics. Most likely due to the poor adaptability of too many players, because to play a BB well requires things like situational awareness, the ability to disengange (which often means to just not shoot which I guess the hurr-durr types attracted to BBs are incapable of) and resource mangement (like not wasting your damage control on the first fire).

I can somewhat understand what is happening, there is a reason why I don't pvp anymore since years (Torpedo soup made even worse by subs prime among them right after teammate quality). But that doesn't make it good tactics.

 

If this is how you think BBs play in random battles you do not know how to play battleships. 

[Unlooky]

4 hours ago, UnrepentantSinner said:

What's up with the players that torp, shoot Transylvania at the end, that's so stupid. Don't get me started on the DD players who throw water bombs the whole match.

??? Who cares? How does this affect your game in any way? They're the ones wasting credits on munitions, not you. 

[NMA101]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

If this is how you think BBs play in random battles you do not know how to play battleships. 

Read carefully. He was talking about bad BB players, not his own play style:

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To me, that is just bad tactics. 

[Unlooky]

Just now, NMA101 said:

Read carefully. He was talking about bad BB players, not his own play style:

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If his statement is supposed to be hyperbolic, then sure, but it's clearly not given his other statements in this thread. The battleships who play like that are a minority. There are more BB players who charge in and get themselves killed early than players who sit in C1 the entire game trying to snipe. I highly doubt the original commenter has sufficient experience in Random Battles or high tier Random Battles to make such claims. 

[NMA101]

7 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

If his statement is supposed to be hyperbolic, then sure, but it's clearly not given his other statements in this thread. The battleships who play like that are a minority. There are more BB players who charge in and get themselves killed early than players who sit in C1 the entire game trying to snipe. I highly doubt the original commenter has sufficient experience in Random Battles or high tier Random Battles to make such claims. 

I am trying to understand your complaint. You think he is factually incorrect about the proportion of BBs who spawn camp versus die early? Is playing a few thousand battles enough to validate your claim that sniping BBs are a minority of players? Because other than official WG internal statistics, there is no way for anyone to know the true, exact number of each type of player. 

Also, no need to attack someone and say they "do not know how to play battleships". You can be perfectly good at managing DCP, concealment, crossfires etc., just from experience playing operations, asymmetric, or other PVE modes. 

Based on what he said after, it seems like he is inferring that the players who YOLO in learn the wrong lessons and shift gears to spawn camping. So he acknowledges both problems exist. 

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Most likely due to the poor adaptability of too many players, because to play a BB well requires things like situational awareness, the ability to disengange (which often means to just not shoot which I guess the hurr-durr types attracted to BBs are incapable of) and resource management (like not wasting your damage control on the first fire)

 

[Unlooky]

Just now, NMA101 said:

I am trying to understand your complaint. You think he is factually incorrect about the proportion of BBs who spawn camp versus die early? Is playing a few thousand battles enough to validate your claim that sniping BBs are a minority of players? Because other than official WG internal statistics, there is no way for anyone to know the true, exact number of each type of player. 

 

I think what he posted is completely detatched from reality. I play a LOT of random battles, specifically within the T8-10 bracket. The amount of BBs I've seen who play as he has described are far and few inbetween. It comes off to me as another complaint about Random Battles not having balls to the walls action nonstop. 

Just now, NMA101 said:

 

Also, no need to attack someone and say they "do not know how to play battleships". You can be perfectly good at managing DCP, concealment, crossfires etc., just from experience playing operations, asymmetric, or other PVE modes. 

In co-op modes, the only factor that you mentioned which actually matters is DCP management. Concealment is irrelevant, no engagement is long range enough or lasts long enough for it to matter. Crossfires CAN be a thing, but 90% of bots die before they matter, and in operations, its typically best for BBs to stay with the pack. Co Op modes encourage BBs rushing in against an enemy that plays horribly in order to score the most damage.

The objective fact is that the random battles skill ceiling is exponentially higher than the co op ceiling, and battleship play is no exception. It is therefore, frankly stupid to claim that Random Battles creates worse battleship players than other modes. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Unlooky

[Kruzenstern]

39 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

If his statement is supposed to be hyperbolic, then sure, but it's clearly not given his other statements in this thread. The battleships who play like that are a minority. There are more BB players who charge in and get themselves killed early than players who sit in C1 the entire game trying to snipe. I highly doubt the original commenter has sufficient experience in Random Battles or high tier Random Battles to make such claims.

[...]

I think what he posted is completely detatched from reality. I play a LOT of random battles, specifically within the T8-10 bracket. The amount of BBs I've seen who play as he has described are far and few inbetween. It comes off to me as another complaint about Random Battles not having balls to the walls action nonstop. 

Indeed I do not play (m)any random battles anymore. But I do watch streams, and play the occasional ranked and even random battle, and my experience is indeed that the majority of battleship players play them like their one endearing feature is their range, and the most important thing to do is avoid having their paint scratched. Which is of course the wrong way to play. Like NMA101 correctly read my post, I am annoyed by that bad play being transported into PvE operations, where it is even more wrong. And yes, they probably got pushed into that way of playing by trying the equally wrong yolo approach (which actually might be more helpful sometimes in PvE operations).

The right way to play, a balance between pushing and falling back, is of course a lot harder to accomplish, too much for many who only know black and white, and don' acknowledge the existence of grey. A general problem with humanity on its way towards idiocracy, not just in this game.

53 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

In co-op modes, the only factor that you mentioned which actually matters is DCP management. Concealment is irrelevant, no engagement is long range enough or lasts long enough for it to matter. Crossfires CAN be a thing, but 90% of bots die before they matter, and in operations, its typically best for BBs to stay with the pack. Co Op modes encourage BBs rushing in against an enemy that plays horribly in order to score the most damage.

The objective fact is that the random battles skill ceiling is exponentially higher than the co op ceiling, and battleship play is no exception. It is therefore, frankly stupid to claim that Random Battles creates worse battleship players than other modes. 

Not sure why you are mixing co-op and operations so much, but it makes you look rather clueless about operations. What you say does indeed apply to coop, but not at all to operations. Coop is completely braindead and pretty useless for educational purposes beyond learning basics like firing arcs and trajectories. Operations are completely different and BBs staying with the pack is often the cause for losing stars. And the range is more than enough for even BB concealment to matter if you know the scenarios and skill for concealment (wont work if you run a lighthouse build of course).

Obvously the skill ceiling of randoms is exponantially higher than that of co-op, but that also holds true for operations. Yes, the random skill ceiling is also much higher than that for operations, but I guess that just makes many players not even try (I used to be a not so bad random player but advancing age and ever more unfun game mechanics made me largely abandon PvP modes). In operations, even a not-so-bright guy should be able to learn the ropes reasonably quickly due to the repitiveness, but somehow that does not seem to happen, which I am afraid might be due to 'tactics' 'learned' from Random being burned in too deeply.

As for why your experience with BB players sitting back differs so far from mine, maybe it is because you play on NA and I play on EU. I played on NA for a bit some years ago, and back then there was a noticeable quality difference, the teammates on NA were more reliable, maybe that is still true. And from hearsay I got that in Asia, the play was even more passive than on EU, whereas in Russia there was much more yoloing.

[NMA101]

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

I think what he posted is completely detatched from reality. I play a LOT of random battles, specifically within the T8-10 bracket. The amount of BBs I've seen who play as he has described are far and few in between. 

Well, since the evidence you present for your claim essentially boils down to "trust me bruh", I will counter with my own anecdotal statistics. I play a LOT of ranked battles, and I have seen many BBs, including German ones that cannot be citadeled, kite and hide behind islands for much of the match. If I had to guess, the split would be roughly 50/50 between the population that yolos in early and those that snipe from the back line. And remember, this is in ranked, a game mode that favors close-in brawling and has far less perma-spotting from CVs and subs. 

I will concede that I do not play much randoms. However, a logical extrapolation from my ranked experience would lead me to believe these same cowardly ranked BB players would behave the same in random battles. At least, when I look up the individual players' stats, the ranked and randoms winrate % tends to be the same.

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In co-op modes, the only factor that you mentioned which actually matters is DCP management. Concealment is irrelevant, no engagement is long range enough or lasts long enough for it to matter. Crossfires CAN be a thing, but 90% of bots die before they matter, and in operations, its typically best for BBs to stay with the pack. Co Op modes encourage BBs rushing in against an enemy that plays horribly in order to score the most damage. 

Here I have some concrete examples to refute your argument. There are 3 "long range" operations: Ultimate Frontier, Cherry Blossom, and Aegis. There are often times when playing as a BB, you are targeted by several cruisers spamming HE at you. That would certainly be the time to manage DCP and go dark, in which case being mindful of your ship's concealment is essential for survival. In some cases, enemies will spawn on both sides of your ship, so yes bot crossfires definitely occur, and knowing which ships one can angle against versus bow-tank is helpful. 

I agree with your conclusion, that Random Battles do not create bad BB players. They were simply born that way. The game design simply reinforces their natural instincts.

[Gnirf]

Think the event is ok, have grinded some captains and/or ships. 

But little variation, so playing 2-3 games per session/day. The goal is the 15000 Base XPMark.

Cruisers are quite fun. Grinded my T9 Andalucia which helped me get almost to the end of Spanish cruiser event (which is grindy), do not think I would have made the effort otherwise in that event.

Karl XIV Johan I have played a lot, Bayard, Mainz, Jäger  and some grind in Katsonis. Tried Hornet once, we won but I played awful. 

Will try subs a little to get these low dmg personal missions probably, I hate subs but I need the tokens.

 

[Guest]

Nice little earner.

[Volron]

On 10/29/2023 at 5:10 PM, Volron said:

Some tips for ya folk:
 

1. If in a BB, you must be out in front of Transylvania.  You need to tank for her first and foremost, but bonus if you can tank for the team.  Be smart about it though, as things tend to set you on fire, especially the 3 Objective DD's.
2. If in a CA, focus on setting things on fire.  Just like other Halloween Op's, fire is your friend, more so since the Filth gives them a massive damage resistance.  Try to spot the 3 objective DD's if at all possible.  Dar CA's excel at this.
3. If in a DD, you should focus on picking up the 2nd Shard then spotting the 3 DD objectives.  Be smart as they will hurt you.  Torpedo the world if you have em.  Fries/Gron will actually perform reasonably well here.  Divi up with 2 others with either of those and focus.  Enjoy the constant stream of shells.
4. If in a SS, usually you will be placed in back.  Ignore the first wave and get yourself into position to torpedo the 3 objective DD's.  Hit everything when possible, does not matter what it is.  Just hit it.
5. If in a CV, be aware you have practically unlimited aircraft with the regen buff you get but this does not mean you can just carelessly throw them away either.  Focus on the 3 objective DD's primarily, as you can actually do a decent amount of damage to them even when they are in the filth.

Regardless of class, focus the 3 objective DD's when they appear, and focus fire on the closest one.  Getting them down ASAP will save you a ton of trouble later.

I need to revise 2 with addition:

Heavy CA's can actually tank a bit if careful since CA's can restore their HP just by shooting stuff.  Help out the BB's in tanking.  If you see one drawing a lot of fire, get out there and take some heat off them.  BB's have power and can do a fair chunk of damage against things in the filth.  Not all of them, but Iowa/MO and Musashi (if Mistress is kind to them) can really work things over.  Alaska is quite decent at both jobs since she has the improved angles and still has some tank to her.  Won't do as much as a BB, but can still do work.  Light's should avoid tanking, but not be afraid to either.  Neptune is actually a decent gal as well.

[Gnirf]

On 10/31/2023 at 6:37 AM, Unlooky said:

??? Who cares? How does this affect your game in any way? They're the ones wasting credits on munitions, not you. 

Might trigger self destruct? A low hp Benham yesterday spammed torps and were destroyed at the end. All enemies were sunk, he was not on fire but suddenly he exploded.

We were deprived of that achievement where all need to survive.

I have plenty of them so it does not matter to me but for a new player which only plays a few games it might mean something?

[Project45_Opytny]

1 hour ago, Gnirf said:

Might trigger self destruct? A low hp Benham yesterday spammed torps and were destroyed at the end. All enemies were sunk, he was not on fire but suddenly he exploded.

We were deprived of that achievement where all need to survive.

I have plenty of them so it does not matter to me but for a new player which only plays a few games it might mean something?

That's because as WG is following their own lore of Halloween Operations, when Transylvania arrives at the Dimensional Portal, she will detonate a special device that will demolish the portal once and for all, while also sacrificing herself in the powerful explosion.

The entire map is covered by Filth effects and during the normal duration of the Operation, a shrinking safe area is centered around Transylvania. After the destruction of both the Portal and Transylvania, for a couple of seconds between her arrival and the formal end of the battle, all surviving player ships will be damaged by the Filth for a couple of thousands of HP. Some players with very low HP may be killed at this point.

Even warnings of Friendly Fire has been disabled for this operation, not to say Friendly Fire itself.

[Gnirf]

11 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

That's because as WG is following their own lore of Halloween Operations, when Transylvania arrives at the Dimensional Portal, she will detonate a special device that will demolish the portal once and for all, while also sacrificing herself in the powerful explosion.

The entire map is covered by Filth effects and during the normal duration of the Operation, a shrinking safe area is centered around Transylvania. After the destruction of both the Portal and Transylvania, for a couple of seconds between her arrival and the formal end of the battle, all surviving player ships will be damaged by the Filth for a couple of thousands of HP. Some players with very low HP may be killed at this point.

Even warnings of Friendly Fire has been disabled for this operation, not to say Friendly Fire itself.

Thanks for the answer, i never thougt of that until you pointed it out, so that was the reason, he had only 280 hp left.

[Zoot21]

Played my first 3 Halloween matches (won the first 2, then a loss), and here's some advice.

1.  The Operation ran all three times northeast to southwest for my matches, with 3 ships starting north of the Transylvania, and 3 south.  Try and stay on "your side" as the game progresses, as enemies hit you from north, south, and front (west) pretty consistently.  If you try to "switch" a side in order to "help out" that group out, you leave your previous "side" exposed and the Transylvania takes major damage (and it must pass the finish line with 50% or greater hit points or you don't get that ticked off your 6 or so secondary win conditions).

Switch the aim of your guns and torps, but not the position of your ship.  (Modify as team players get sunk.)

 

2.  The Filth HURTS.  Make an effort to stay within the Transylvania's 'Filth immunity field' so you take no damage from it.  (FYI, you can regenerate points by doing damage during the game; I don't think the immunity field itself heals you.)  Even if you have a ship with multiple heals, the Filth's damage is mostly (like 80%) unable to be healed, and it damages you faster than any flooding damage you've ever seen.  This is ESPECIALLY important if you're in a slow ship with a large turn radius! (As a DD trying to sail through the Filth for a special bonus that's a distance away, just be aware you probably won't make it back alive.)

Just say NO to Filth!

 

I'd suggest beginners try it out with a Seattle.  Fast firing guns, good fire chance, 3-4 heals, defensive AA (which comes in handy), decent maneuverability, decent health pool.   Range is not an issue in this Operation -- when you first spot anything, it's in range (of guns -- not necessarily in range of torps)! 

 

Open question to any player who's done the Operation with a "Ram Flag" activated -- does it work?  Do you survive a ram against a Rasputin?  What about the Leviathan?  All the rams I've seen in game have ended with the teammate sunk and the enemy ship still afloat.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Zoot21

[Wolfswetpaws]

54 minutes ago, Zoot21 said:

Open question to any player who's done the Operation with a "Ram Flag" activated -- does it work?  Do you survive a ram against a Rasputin?  What about the Leviathan?  All the rams I've seen in game have ended with the teammate sunk and the enemy ship still afloat.

I've not run with a ramming-flag, yet, in Last Voyage of the Transylvania.

Near the end there are only two ships that are viable ramming-targets.
I wouldn't mind if my ship were sunk in the process.

But, if the team plays well enough, they'll sink opponents quickly with a variety of ordnance, so the need for ramming becomes less of an issue.

[Roughrdr]

I was in a match earlier where a player in a Seattle rammed a Rasputin at the end. He took no damage. Not sure what went on there, maybe the cruiser buff counted the ram as damage to heal? I've noticed the leech HP is inconsistent on when you get it and when you don't.

[NMA101]

Also, this was discovered quite late, but if you win the battle, any signals used will not be consumed!

I will be mounting heal, fire reduction, and speed flags on all my ships now.